From: Timothy Bates (tbates@karri.bhs.mq.edu.au)
Date: Wed Mar 03 1999 - 04:53:03 MST
-Anthony Garcia wrote many cogent and cunningly constructed sentences, the
impact of which I will not reduce by partially quoting.
He ended with:
> ... voluntarism, even in it's
> watered-down form as minarchist libertarianism, is unpopular with the
> masses. They appear to like slavery and socialism and being governed.
> Or at least they don't mind it very much, and they tend to resent
> anyone who questions their complacency. And perhaps Max, acting in
> his role as "spokesperson for Extropianism" would like to see big-E
> Extropianism popularized among and adopted by these same masses,
> incidentally leading to better chances for speaking gigs and book
> deals and talking head TV appearances for himself. Thus, the
> abandonment or at least shoving-aside of inconvenient voluntarism.
>
> I'm disgusted.
I agree. The situation is similar to that facing Mahatma Ghandi immediately
prior to British withdrawal and the granting of independence to India.
Ghandi did not want to accept Independence are argued against signing up to
Lord Mountbatten's Indian Independence Bill? Why, because having come 90% of
the distance he did not want to end up with a crippled prize (a divided
India, which as Ghandi predicted, has been in a constant state of near-war
with its Northern neighbor ever since separation).
We must hold strong to voluntarism as a primary underpinning of future man,
otherwise he will be a slave.
tim
----------
>From: Anthony Garcia <agarcia@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
>To: max@maxmore.com, extropians@extropy.com
>Subject: A PHILIPPIC FROM THE OLD SCHOOL: Extropianism Sells Out
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 9:19 PM
>
> Max More writes:
>
> "[The belief that force should not be used except
> in self-defense is] *compatible* with extropianism.
> But it is not *required* by extropianism."
>
> Perhaps upon reaching the decrepit old age of 30, my mind is beginning
> to fail me. But I *was* under the impression that "extropianism" was
> explicitly voluntarist/an-Archist/anarchocapitalist, completely
> rejecting any political/social systems which sanction any type of
> initiation of force or other transgression against the individual.
>
> I don't recall how I formed this apparently incorrect association.
> Perhaps from reading articles such as "Deep Anarchy", published in
> EXTROPY No. 5 nearly a decade ago, where Max wrote:
>
> "Two of the fundamental extropian values are
> responsibility for one's own life and actions,
> and the determination to do away with
> constraints on one's rational will. I
> believe that the institutions of religion and
> ``the State`` are antithetical to these values."
>
> "We already live in an anarchy. There is no
> ``State``. There are only individuals acting
> in a statist manner..."
>
> "Let us not be deterred from seeking a
> spontaneous voluntarist society by cynics who
> stand for stagnation. Freedom is our
> evolutionary future."
>
> Yet now I see Max stating in his 2/21/99 govt.html:
>
> "Extropians _generally favor_ market mechanisms...
> Extropians _generally prefer_ market approaches...
> [but] we may differ among ourselves about
> the extent of the proper role of government.
>
> And just what sorts of roles for government might this
> new, improved extropianism support?
>
> "Some [extropians] may favor government subsidy of basic
> scientific research, or certain regulations [to
> maintain] a maximally open society, or the
> provision of services they think will be poorly
> provided without state intervention."
>
> Oh, really now?
>
> Exactly how long has this congenial attitude towards the State been a
> part of the accepted definition of "extropian"? In other words,
> exactly at what point within the last 7 or 8 years did I unknowingly
> cease to be an extropian? I suppose I have to seek the company of
> "Voluntarist Transhumanists" now that Max has seen fit to extend his
> definition of "extropianism" to include sanction of the extortionist
> practices of nation-state criminal gangs?
>
> My fault for not paying attention, of course. I've been ignoring the
> Extropy Institute for some time now, basically ever since EXTROPY
> ceased publication. I didn't particularly dig the shallow fluffiness
> creeping in towards the end. I've been busy with other things going
> on in my life, and haven't had time to closely follow the Extropians
> mailing list or make frequent visits to infrequently updated websites.
> I've been receiving and archiving the mailing list, and only glancing
> into my archives on rare occasions. Nonetheless, during all this
> time, I've continued to consider myself "extropian".
>
> I suppose my big mistake was failing to pay attention when EP 3.0 was
> released. I now go check it out and find that the principle of
> valuing "Spontaneous Order" has spontaneously mutated itself into
> "Open Society" and "Self-Direction". Not quite the same thing.
> "Yes, Citizen-unit", {thump baton into open palm}, "you can have all
> the Open Society and criticism you want. Just as long as you keep
> directing yourself to make those tax payments on time."
>
> I *was* under the impression that, with "extropianism", I had found
> the company of like-minded voluntarist transhumanists. But now Max
> has apparently expanded the "tent" to include the potentially larger
> set of non-voluntarist transhumanists. And in doing so, he has
> transformed the place where voluntarist transhumans stand under this
> tent. We once could roam the entire floor; now we are shunted off to
> a small corner where we can be safely ignored:
>
> "_Some_ [extropians] would like to experiment with
> entirely novel [voluntarist] social orders..."
>
> Wow. Smooth.
>
> I can see why Max might want to do this: voluntarism, even in it's
> watered-down form as minarchist libertarianism, is unpopular with the
> masses. They appear to like slavery and socialism and being governed.
> Or at least they don't mind it very much, and they tend to resent
> anyone who questions their complacency. And perhaps Max, acting in
> his role as "spokesperson for Extropianism" would like to see big-E
> Extropianism popularised among and adopted by these same masses,
> incidentally leading to better chances for speaking gigs and book
> deals and talking head TV appearances for himself. Thus, the
> abandonment or at least shoving-aside of inconvenient voluntarism.
>
> I'm disgusted.
>
> -Anthony Garcia
> agarcia@neosoft.com
> voluntarist transhumanist
> Ex-Extropian
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