From: ASpidle@aol.com
Date: Thu Feb 25 1999 - 15:24:50 MST
In a message dated 99-02-25 13:40:12 EST, you write:
ASpidle@aol.com writes:
[human-to-Borg-to-God scenario]
> At this point it/they is/are God. Sort of
> like the Borg with firewalls, and much better looking. More like the Q
> Continuum.
I buy this. This sounds like a great future, well worth striving
for. The danger is thinking it is inevitable - if we do that, then we
think that we don't need to do much, and eventually nothing gets
done. But if we see it as a goal, something noble to strive for (in
its many varieties) in a rational manner, then we have a chance of
getting there.
Important point Anders. It is worth striving for and we do have a chance of
getting there. You have a much better chance of getting to where you want to
be if you aim for it. It is the main reason I've founded a church, to
institutionalize this directed striving. I have children and grandchildren
who's well being in the future greatly concerns me.
> Having control of time means that God is operating now and was
> operating in the past, therefore we can gain knowledge of God by
> studying the nature of the universe. This study I say is worship,
> and is the only worship God expects. He most certainly doesn't
> expect us to prostrate ourselves at his feet.
This is the part I don't buy. Note that you assume time travel, which
is a rather big assumption, and also that God will exist in this way,
which is another big assumption. It would be nice if it was true, but
there are no particular reasons to think that these assumptions hold
true.
Thanks Anders. This scenario fails when time travel is proven impossible. I
see this as a fifty fifty proposition, but still worth striving for.
Regarding the nature of God... I think this is up to us. He will be how we
make him to be, for good or for bad. I want to make sure He's good, another
reason to institutionalize these aspirations.
> In fact. I believe God expects us to join the community of gods that is
God,
> when we're good enough, when we deserve it. Frank Tipler tells us how we
can
> all be brought back to life in the massive computers of the future. I
don't
> think the Omega Point is integral to this theory, so it doesn't matter if
the
> Universe will crunch or not.
Well, Tipler did manage to show some interesting limitations on
posthuman omniintelligences (or whatever to call the things that are
SI to SIs), and without an OP they will still be finite - immense, but
with a finite lifetime, computational ability and memory. On the other
hand, if you allow time travel you can likely do tricks that make the
Bekenstein bound break... but it is a big assumption to make.
Anders, I think this assumption is still worth making. I like the results.
> God is our descendent and his nature is an extension of ours.
> We must be worthy!
And Man created God in his image who created Man in his image who
created...
Ah, The Church of the Fixed Point: our reality and human nature is the
only consistent fixed point for the above process. The Church spends
lots of time iterating immense dynamical systems on the holy computers
trying to calculate the parameters of love, truth and sacredness. They
have already found truth to two decimal places...
:-)
Ha Ha. The Strong Anthropic Principle taken to the absurd. None-the-less,
worth striving for.
Hoping not to bore you, let me tell you a little about myself and how this
goal of mine came to obsess me.
I am a 54 year old businessman and Viet Nam era vet (sorry, Viet Nam is how it
was spelled there). I am not a scientist like most of you guys. Long ago, I
studied Materials Science for three years at MIT but never finished it.
I am trying to make my third marriage work and have a son (31) and daughter
(4) who I adore.
My body has been insulted by a tumor on my brain and diabetes. My spirit was
shattered by the death of my father 6 years ago.
Must life be so painful for us? Must their be no recognition for the
existential heros we all must be to function throughout a normal lifetime? Is
there no reward for being a dutiful soldier?
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think a well designed modern, scientifically grounded
religion should and must minister to these needs, for everyone!! Who else
will?
Adrian
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
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Subject: Re: Re: Extropianism & Theology
References: <1b9fbe80.36d467e8@aol.com>
From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
Date: 25 Feb 1999 19:37:40 +0100
In-Reply-To: ASpidle@aol.com's message of Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:58:16 EST
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