From: Michael S. Lorrey (retroman@together.net)
Date: Fri Jan 15 1999 - 08:15:59 MST
Ian Goddard wrote:
> IAN: If mice are in low-crowed environments but
> get violent in high crowding, but each condition
> is under laboratory conditions where the mice are
> not hunting for food in either scenario, they are
> deprived of hunting situations equally in both
> low and high crowing scenarios. This would tend
> to suggest that hunting depravation is Not the
> cause of increasing violence upon crowding,
> since the crowding is not associated with
> any increase in non-hunting activities,
> but is assocaited with increased aggression.
>
> So hunting change is zero and yet aggression
> change is nonzero, which speaks against the
> theory you raise that country folk are less
> criminal because they kill more animals.
However, you are talking about mice and I am talking about men. They are distinct
species with different behaviors. However, using lab mice is kinda like looking
for the behavior in a herd of cows. They are very domesticated. Try a natural
environment with wild mice, with and without prey. I'll try to find out if Jackson
Labs produces a strain of lab mice which is naturally sociopathic/psychotic. A lab
experiment could be run with such a strain, providing non mouse prey and no non
mouse prey on such a strain would work.
> >> IAN: What's the deal? That's 100% consistent
> >> with what I said and know.? We've probably
> >> also seen the same nature shows.
> >
> >Chimps and baboons are also members of the 'great apes' (the baboons may
> just be
> >considered a monkey, I can't remember) and are not strict vegetarians.
> These are
> >also only ape species that exist TODAY. Look at the fossil record....
>
> IAN: OK, good point, my error. By
> "great apes" I meant the gorillas,
> which I understand are strict vegis.
> I guess of all the primates, they
> seem to be the greatest...
Yes, very. However notice how much they've evolved into a niche that cannot
tolerate violence, and is probably what will cause them to become extinct, even if
not by the hands of man. Same with the orangutan.
Mike Lorrey
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 15:02:50 MST