From: Anders Sandberg (asa@nada.kth.se)
Date: Tue Dec 08 1998 - 09:59:22 MST
"Billy Brown" <bbrown@conemsco.com> writes:
> Anders Sandberg:
> > Is it just me, or doesn't it look like there is ample room for an
> > interesting synthesis of transhumanist thinking with some of the
> > eastern philosophical systems without having to throw important things
> > like critical thinking and empiricism overboard (as you often have to
> > do when trying it with western religions)?
>
> In my experience, Eastern religions are generally even less rational than
> Western ones. Not only do they carry the "the material world is evil" and
> "obedience to a higher power" memes so common in the West, but they are also
> infected to varying degrees with "there is no objective reality", "the
> highest virtue is to do nothing", "individuals do not matter/do not exist",
> and "perfection = oblivion". I don't see much potential for synthesis here.
[See caveat near the end]
I think this comes from a rather biased view of what they are
saying. See Ian Goddards libertarian take on Taoism posted earlier
today or yesterday, for example. "do nothing" can also be interpreted
in a very positive way. I think Lao Tse would have agreed in many ways
with it, even if he might not have bought the whole idea for purely
cultural reasons.
The "material world is evil" meme isn't as clear-cut in the east as you
make it out to be. At least the Chinese view seems to me be more along
the lines that the material world is or could be good - this is the
basis for much of the taoist experimentation in alchemy and magic: if
you can harmonize everything, you will create a terrestrial paradise.
The idea of no objective reality is also rather tricky. Sure, this is
what Buddhism and Hinduism seem to be saying (and I expect many of the
followers agree completely). But the Buddhist idea that consciousness
is the basic building block of existence, the only thing that truly
exists, seems to me rather say that there is a quite objecte reality,
it is just based on something rather weird. And after reading a bit of
Zen, I'm becoming convinced that the best description of their
metaphysics is objectivism - they want to see reality as it is (even
if it is through mystical means). The descriptions of higher mental
states also do not suggest them to be oblivion, but rather a state of
very practical detachment.
Of course, speaking broadly about "the east" is as silly and
overgeneralizing as saying things about all western cultures at the
same time. It is better to be more specific, like saying "the taoist
ideas of spontaneous organization fits in well with extropianism, even
if it also promotes an uncritical approach" and so on.
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard
it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and
rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it
is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in
anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been
handed down for many generations. But after observation and
analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and
is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then
accept it and live up to it."
- Buddha
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension! asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/ GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 14:49:55 MST