From: man immortal (man_immortal@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Nov 06 1998 - 12:58:12 MST
>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:01:51 +1000
>From: patrickw@cs.monash.edu.au (Patrick Wilken)
>Subject: Re: Calorie Restriction (Thank you CR Society)
>
>>---
>>After being on CR with inadequate nutrition for about 6 years during
>>high-school, I look 3 years younger than I am, but had headaches,
>>depression, and was not sexually active, so there were trade-offs.
>>NOW, I am on cyclical calorie-restriction with DARN NEAR OPTIMAL
>>nutrition and I feel ABSOLUTELY FREAKING FANTASTIC!
>
>What is cyclical CR? Is this fasting on alternative days?
It is CR on alternative days, but not necessarily fasting, just CR.
Though I do fast for 1 day every month, 3 days every few months, 1 week
every year, and eventually I'll fast for 1 month every year for a few
years, but I am very relaxed and flexible with that schedule, so
sometimes I'll go for shorter or longer times, depending on whatever my
body tells me to do.
I go on CR every 2 weeks, eating about 1000 - 1500 Cal/day and taking
the time to relieve stress and get serious about my research.
For the other 2 weeks I am a completely fanatical hedonist, bodybuilder,
dancer, party animal, club hopper, and generally very active person who
eats up to 3,000 Cal/day, without getting fat.
I've gained 10 lbs of pure muscle this year even though I've been
through several fasts, about 10 for 1 day, 2 for 3 days, and 1 for a
week.
I plan to have a liquid fast for a week sometime this winter.
>I've heard that
>if you don't want to cut down calories on all days a few days fast is
>nearly as good. Even increased eating on non-fast days still keeps your
>overall calorie intake below normal. But are there health issues with
>fasting?
If you know what you are doing, most of the health issues are extremely
positive ones, but everything has it's ups and downs that need looking
after.
I wholeheartedly recommend EVERYONE fast unless their doctor says
otherwise.
You should all read up on it and find somebody to guide you if you need
it.
If you feel like you can hack it, stop eating RIGHT NOW!
Fast for 24 hours and then have a nice plump hunk of meat, chock full of
amino acids and dripping with juices to celebrate, but try to make it
organic and cooked on low heat. :-)
Drink water, hyperventilate, meditate, watch movies, read, relax, keep
entertained, spend some time at a friends house (except when they eat),
and the day flys by.
Your organs will thank you for the rest.
It will clear up some insensitivites to varies substances (insulin,
dopamine, norepinepherine, etc).
Pay attention to your body, before, during, and after (especially 30
minutes after you eat).
It may teach you something.
Here's something to think about:
For the millions of years our ancestors hunted and gathered their food
with claws and fangs, how many days a year did each go without dinner?
Now, are you sure eating 3 square meals a day for the rest of your life
is the right thing to do?
>
>best, patrick
>
>-
It's nice to meet you Patrick.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Patrick Wilken
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~patrickw/
>Editor: PSYCHE: An International Journal of Research on
Consciousness
>Secretary: The Association for the Scientific Study of
Consciousness
>http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/
http://www.phil.vt.edu/ASSC/
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:47:20 -0800
>From: Brian Manning Delaney <b-delaney@uchicago.edu>
>Subject: Re: Calorie Restriction (Thank you CR Society)
Brian! 8-D
Wow!
It's been so long since we talked, I can't even remember what my name
was back when I was with the CRS! ;-)
I'm glad you crossed over to the extropian list.
>I'm not sure I'm an Extropian,
I'd call you an extropian, maybe a bit conservative, but extropian for
sure.
>but I just joined this list. I've
>been on CR for about 6 years (I'll be in a 48 Hours piece next
>week, but I doubt there'll be much useful info in it.) I went
>from severe to moderate CR a couple of years ago, partly for
>scientific reasons. Noted that my fasting glucose was going up
>(evil, evil), so now I'm going back down to severe CR again (was
>planning to do anyway, but the biostat changes help keep me
>motivated).
I'm telling you people, cyclical CR is the way to go.
Change with the seasons, like your ancestors did.
It balances tolerances and intolerances to natural processes which could
turn deadly, like insulin resistance.
>And why is Walford the only CR researcher who actually follows
>the diet? Strange. Optimism Dept: Because the rest think a pill
>version is just around the corner.
Who needs pills when you've got cybernetics and nanotech?
Heck who needs *life* when you've got nano?
Just come back later.
>
>There doesn't seem to be a threshold in rodents. And I doubt
>there's one in any species. It seems to be: the more you "R" the
>"C", the better the effect, all the way to a point VERY near
>starvation. (I wouldn't push it, personally.)
I have been wanting to combine CR with suspended animation to try to
learn how to hybernate, estivate, or enter torpor, but more truly I want
to have a controlled Near Death Experience (NDE) so I can argue with
people that say cryonics won't work because the soul leaves the body
after death.
How will the counter when I show them medical documentation of my death?
Also, I've got a few vampire friends that would be impressed. ;^)
If you have any advice, I would appreciate getting it before I try any
experiments.
>Until we have validated biomarkers of aging, we will need the
>120-year (or 150-year!) study to know with absolute certainty
>whether CR works in humans, and to what degree. Myself, I think
>based on what we know that there's very little chance that it
>won't work for us.
OK, I've heared some high numbers when discussing the potential
lifespan.
Some people have claimed to be over 200.
Does anyone care to comment on this?
>
>> After being on CR with inadequate nutrition for
>> about 6 years during high-school,
>
>AKA "anorexia" :)
I preferred to call it:
wake too late for breakfast and save lunch money.
You know, if you have to fast, the easiest time to do it is after a
fast( sleep) because the fat stores are mobilized to prevent excessive
gluconeogenesis (muscle wasting).
>> I am on cyclical calorie-restriction with DARN
>> NEAR OPTIMAL nutrition and I feel ABSOLUTELY
>> FREAKING FANTASTIC!
>
>Right on! CR definitely makes me feel great too. The scrawniness
>is a bummer, though.
No scrawniness here, a friend is even trying to get me to work as a
professional dancer at a nightclub's sexual fetish event, and like I've
said, I've gained 10 lbs, all lean body mass, this year.
>
>Best, and pardon typos,
>Brian.
I absolve you.
>- --
>Brian Manning Delaney
><b-delaney@uchicago.edu>
>(No need to CC articles to me.)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:12:48 +0100
>From: "Max M" <maxm@maxmcorp.dk>
>Subject: Re: Calorie Restriction (Thank you CR Society)
>
>From: Brian Manning Delaney <b-delaney@uchicago.edu>
>
>
>I just wondere where exercise fits into this? If for example I do
weight
>pushing and something like running. Then my rest pulse will be lower
too
>right? Doesn't that too lower the overall metabolism?
With training, your heart becomes a more efficient pump by becoming
stronger and pumping more blood with each contraction, but exercise
raises the metabolism so cells can be active enough to repair the
damage.
Oxygen deficits could be useful, like changing red slow twitch muscle
fibers, which run on oxygen, into white fast twitch muscle fibers, which
run on adenosine triphosphate (ATP)
HI believe high intensity training (HIT) would be better for those would
want to cycle exercise for a more extreme low metabolism phase.
Of course, I'm just speculating.
I've never heard anyone ever mention anything like this, and I've heared
most of the best.
Maybe Torbjorn Akerfeldt or Art DeVany would know something about it.
They taught me the Anabolic Burst Cycle of Diet and Exercise system
(ABCDE) and the Evolutionary Fitness and diet system.
Any way, exercise is good, *for some things*.
>
>Then it might be possible to do calorie restriction by eating just the
>calories you would need without exercising. And then Exercise the
Calories
>away.
>
Then it's not CR, it just not gaining wieght.
>As some of the posting Doug Screcky has made her about the Fat vs.
Fittnes
>seem to imply that overall death rate seem much more dependant of
fittnes
>than of weight.
Certainly, that is very true.
By definition, fitness is resistance to death,
whereas weight is just weight.
>(I do understan that CR is not about weight but about
>changing the metabolism)
CR is about CR, why you do it is up to you.
>
>Is there any research about this?
There are too many obese americans for there not to be.
>
>Hilsen/regards
>
>Max M Rasmussen
>New Media Director
>Denmark
Thank you Max, I'm glad to know other people are interested in how
exercise and CR effect each other.
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