From: Randall R Randall (rrandall6@juno.com)
Date: Fri Jul 17 1998 - 01:15:54 MDT
--
On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:00:29 -0700 (PDT) John K Clark <johnkc@well.com>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 rrandall6@juno.com (Randall R Randall) Wrote:
>
> >If what you say you were thinking matches
> ^^^^^^^
>So key to the Randall Test is observing the behavior of other people,
exactly
>the same as in the Turing Test.
No, closer to say that the "Randall Test" *includes*
the Turing Test, as it now stands. A better understanding
of consciousness might help us avoid even that.
> >what I remember you thinking, the we can safely assume that you
were
> >thinking that, I think. :) This takes it a step beyond Turing
Tests.
>
>It does nothing of the sort. Both tests depend on you making assumptions
>about the connection between certain sounds I make with my mouth and my
>subjective feelings. The assumption could very well be correct, I have a
>hunch they are, but you'll never be able to prove it.
Let me put this another way. We know that people
make similar sounds on occasion. We also know
that people have similar brains, and that therefore
the sounds must be produced by similar processes
in those brains. The fact that a tape recorder can make
those sounds, however, does not mean that the same
processes are going on in the tape recorder, since
it is a different sort of machine. Since we know, from
personal experience, that human brains *can* be
conscious, and we know that other human brains do
cause similar sounds to ours, we can assume that
they are conscious, and begin our study of consciousness
with that.
> >Any *particular* consciousness *must* have a spatial
location.To say
> >that it does not is the same as saying that it doesn't exist
at all.
>
>Why? Where is the spatial location of green,
There are certainly spatial locations of *particular*
greens; say, the green of a certain lawn.
>or fast, or the number eleven?
*Certain* locations contain matter with
attributes such as these.
>Don't these things exist?
Yep.
> >but I can order my memories by "first" and "last", without any
> >sensory data, so it can detect time.
>
>That's remembering the past not detecting time,
They are the same thing.
>besides a sequence need not
>specify time, six did not come into existence at a later date than five.
>Without senses just how would you detect that I stopped your brain and
then
>restarted it?
I don't know that I could.
--digsig
Wolfkin.
5CaaHx/ncmWI7mi94lMRbZ5naWfoiAiWyG37UUfee/P
6FwTF/ItQ4EaF09MXCsaOphNDs/zHH0/AqCpICvi
4uzNsK+1d2kAxaq01trn38IILaLFElAW+7WoYGKGW
wolfkin@flatoday.infi.net | ICQ: 3043097
E-Gold Acct: 100678 @ www.e-gold.com
On a visible but distant shore a new image of man,
The shape of his own future, now in his own hands.
| Johnny Clegg
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 14:49:22 MST