From: Tim Layton (laytons@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat May 16 1998 - 12:13:17 MDT
STOP SENDING MESSAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!1
>From owner-extropians-digest@extropy.com Wed Apr 8 17:05:40 1998
>Received: (from majordom@localhost)
> by maxwell.kumo.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23880
> for extropians-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:10:17 -0600
>Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:10:17 -0600
>Message-Id: <199804081210.GAA23880@maxwell.kumo.com>
>X-Authentication-Warning: maxwell.kumo.com: majordom set sender to
owner-extropians-digest@extropy.com using -f
>From: owner-extropians-digest@extropy.com (extropians-digest)
>To: extropians-digest@extropy.com
>Subject: extropians-digest V2 #442
>Reply-To: extropians@maxwell.kumo.com
>Sender: owner-extropians-digest@extropy.com
>Errors-To: owner-extropians-digest@extropy.com
>Precedence: bulk
>
>
>extropians-digest Wednesday, April 8 1998 Volume 02 :
Number 442
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:04:39 -6
>From: "Craig Presson" <fcp@Traveller.COM>
>Subject: Re: Face on Mars - NOT
>
>On 6 Apr 98, Hal Finney <hal@rain.org> wrote:
>
>> JPL has now released a processed image of the Face on Mars.[...]
>> It looks nothing like a face.
>[...]
>> It is a fissured, eroded hill, nothing more.
>
>Thanks for pointing this out, Hal. To me, the 1976 picture looked as
>much like a face as the "Man in the Moon" anyway, but this should put
>the FoM to rest. It will be interesting to hear the responses from the
>True Believers, provided I don't have to hear too many of them.
>
>Now I can get back to the important stuff like finding an explanation
>for the Nazca Lines by skipping letters in the Torah.
>
>- -- fcp@traveller.com (Freeman Craig Presson)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:17:49 CST
>From: "Wouldn't you like to know?" <98097@sh.dc.k12.mn.us>
>Subject: Re: calyk
>
>accourding to den otter you are male if this is true oops!!!!!!
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:16:44 CST
>From: "Wouldn't you like to know?" <98097@sh.dc.k12.mn.us>
>Subject: Re: calyk
>
>yes i belive so. so can u answer my question and add your age. i am
>18
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:23:21 CST
>From: "Wouldn't you like to know?" <98097@sh.dc.k12.mn.us>
>Subject: Re: Nicotine( Re: Time for a jump in quality?)
>
>hey man i smoke and i realy don't give a shit. it is a well known
>fact that everyone dies so big deal if someone chooses to shorten
>their life by smoking. http://www.vci-net.com/usr/djarum/
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:24:06 CST
>From: "Wouldn't you like to know?" <98097@sh.dc.k12.mn.us>
>Subject: Re: DIY armor
>
>is this guy some sort of unibomber fan?
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:19:30 -0400
>From: Reilly Jones <Reilly@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Transhumanist Principles
>
>Anders Sandberg wrote 4/7/98: <My current definition of transhumanism
is:
>"The idea that the human condition can be improved above and beyond the
>current stage, through rational means in a life affirming way".>
>
>This is a good stab at a definition. As you know from past list
>discussions, definitions are critical to communication, which is
critical
>to developing a consensual moral polity, which is critical to achieving
>great aims in the future. It seems to me that defining what a human
is,
>has not met with consensus and that defining what a transhuman is,
>therefore, is putting the cart before the horse.
>
>That said, since speculation for fun is the lifeblood of e-lists, I
would
>like to offer that "rational means" is wedded to the concept of
"truth,"
>and "a life affirming way" is wedded to the concept of "good." All you
are
>missing is some part of your definition that is wedded to the concept
of
>"beauty." "Beauty" should enter in as an aim, what transhumanism aims
for.
> Across all scientific endeavors, at all scales, spatial and temporal,
>preferred branches of development reveal themselves. Transhumanism
should
>be aiming at maximizing chances of successful speciation by learning
where
>these preferred branches are located. I like the idea of defining
>transhumanism as an "idea" because it avoids getting bogged down in
>prescriptive or normative ethics, i.e., it doesn't come across as a
>"program" or a utopian manifesto. Optionally, you might bring in some
>concept wedded to "adventure," something relating to the vitality of
>pursuing enhanced consciousness and indefinite longevity.
>
>The inclusion of "a life affirming way" naturally excludes enthusiasts
of
>abortion, infanticide and euthanasia since these are all life
devaluing,
>not affirming. Freedom to murder is not liberty, it's license. These
>enthusiasts, who sanction predatory behavior against the weak, the sick
and
>the old, who adhere to the "might makes right" ethic of entropic
>death-worship, are essentially ape-like thugs who aim no higher than
the
>next tree branch up in a fetid jungle. They may masquerade as
>transhumanists or extropians, but they live an ugly lie, incoherently
and
>irrationally posturing as if they "affirm life" and mouthing vapid
>platitudes about "non-coercion" while forcing everyone to tolerate
their
>endorsement and practice of butchery.
>
>-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Reilly Jones | Philosophy of Technology:
>Reilly@compuserve.com | The rational, moral and political
relations
> | between 'How we create' and 'Why we
create'
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:25:21 +0400 (MSD)
>From: Eugene Leitl <eugene@liposome.genebee.msu.su>
>Subject: META:Re: Nicotine( Re: Time for a jump in quality?)
>
>Wouldn't you like to know? wrote below charming bit of prosa:
> > hey man i smoke and i realy don't give a shit. it is a well known
> > fact that everyone dies so big deal if someone chooses to shorten
> > their life by smoking. http://www.vci-net.com/usr/djarum/
>
>Isn't this the perfect clue to start discussing diverse new list
>structures and moderation schemes, again? If this is of any use, yours
>truly volunteers as a part-time moderator.
>
>ciao,
>'gene
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:34:56 CST
>From: "Wouldn't you like to know?" <98097@sh.dc.k12.mn.us>
>Subject: Re: DIY armor
>
>??? oh ya so's your mother
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:02:25 -0400
>From: Doug Bailey <Doug.Bailey@ey.com>
>Subject: Transhuman book: Dewdney's "Last Flesh: Life in the Transhuman
Era"
>
>Does anyone have any information on this book? Its being published by
Harper Collins and the target date was February 1998. However, I have
not been able to locate a copy yet. I have not been able to find any
information on the perspective of the book either. I would appreciate
any information you may have on this book.
>
>Doug Bailey
>doug.bailey@ey.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:13:57 -0400
>From: Ian Goddard <igoddard@erols.com>
>Subject: HEALTH: Juice 4 The Heart
>
>Excerpts from The Washington Post Health Magazine (03/31/98):
>
> Drinking purple grape juice may turn out
> to be as effective as taking a daily aspirin
> to prevent the formation of blood clots that
> can lead to heart attacks.
>
> That's the conclusion suggested by a small,
> preliminary study reported yesterday by John
> D. Folts of the University of Wisconsin Med-
> ical School at a meeting of the American
> College of Cardiology.
>
> Folts, who first showed in animal experiments
> in 1974 that aspirin can lower the incidence
> of heart attacks, has been studying substances
> known as flavonoids, present in purple grape
> juice, tea and red wine, that reduce the stick-
> iness of platelets (small blood cells that
> initiate clotting). ...
>
> In the new study... [g]rape juice reduced
> platelet aggregation by an average of 84
> percent--a stronger effect than that pre-
> viously reported for aspirin. ...
>
>
>****************************************************************
>VISIT Ian Williams Goddard ----> http://www.erols.com/igoddard
>________________________________________________________________
>
>G O N E -> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/threats.htm#DISAPPEARED
>________________________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
>From: John K Clark <johnkc@well.com>
>Subject: Justice and Punishment
>
>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>"den Otter" <otter@globalxs.nl> On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 Wrote:
>
> >Yes, the system relies heavily on the competence and
benevolence of
> >the leader
>
>And is precisely the fatal weakness of your system.
>
>
> >but of course he'll be elliminated by someone if he does too
> >outrageous things, so that's a safety.
>
>
>No, our leader will be eliminated unless he ignores trivial things like
>benevolence, justice and transhuman principles and concentrates all his
>energies on just one thing. A dictator's full time job is to remain
dictator,
>nothing else. If he doesn't want to work at it full time I guarantee
you
>somebody else will want to and get his job as a result.
>
>
> >You want someone who does his duty but doesn't enjoy it _too_
much.
>
>Such people never become dictators and if they did they would not last.
>
>
> >The system is more or less a constitutional monarchy, but not
a
> >hereditary one.
>
>The first thing the dictator would change.
>
>
> >if it fails...well, you can always try anarcho-capitalism.
>
>
>It will fail and then you're stuck with it because Big Brother has
>surveillance over his subjects so complete Stalin would have drooled,
he also
>has a very sophisticated torture network that would terrify everyone
and he
>has the power to throw out any verdict of the courts that are
"obviously"
>wrong. Good luck trying to get rid if that monstrosity.
>
>
> >minimum wage is the difference between 10 reasonably paid
workers or
> >30 badly underpaid workers.
>
>
>OK, but why is that economically smart or moral? Now you have 20
workers who
>are not paid little, they are paid ZERO.
>
>
> >a smart ruler won't go against the people's wishes *too*
often.
>
>
>A smart ruler will shoot the people who go against his wishes. The
trouble
>with all this is that you're assuming the ruler has values very similar
to
>your own. Unlikely.
>
>
> >The adequacy test is meant for government employees
(especially in
> >important functions)
>
>
>I agree, there would be an adequacy test, the ability to stay in power.
>Do that and you pass the test, end of story.
>
>
> >In reality, no state on earth has enough power to just do
anything
> >with its people, and the politicians know it. As long as you
need
> >them for maintaining the system you can't just kill them.
>
>
>Cambodian politicians murdered close to 30% of the nations population.
>Percentage wise I think that's the best that's been accomplished this
century,
>but they didn't have anything as powerful as the hellish machines your
brave
>new world would have, with a little work I'm sure a new record could be
set.
>
>
> >anarchy inevitably leads to structure,
>
>Yes.
>
> >and structure leads to centralism.
>
>
>No. Where is the center of the Internet? Where is the center
ofbiological
>life, where is it controlled from?
>
>
> >Wherever there's an organized structure of some kind and
capitalism,
> >there will be bribes.
>
>Bribes are much rarer in capitalism than in politics.
>
>
> >Civil remedies still depend on a government to enforce them.
>
>They do now, but you see no way that could ever change. I do.
>
>
> >I can imagine all sorts of mafia types having a ball, no
longer
> >hampered by even token government intervention.
>
>
>The Mafia exists because they provide a service that people want that
can not
>be obtained any other way, like drugs, prostitution, gambling, money
>laundering and high interest loans. Without government help by making
these
>victimless crimes illegal the Mafia would be dead.
>
>
> >I would expect a greater number of "brown shirts" (bullies
that are
> >only tough enough to terrorize unarmed or badly armed people)
in the
> >PPA business
>
>You would prefer bullies so tough they terrorize well armed people?
>
>
> >while the army is more about patriotism
>
>
>The last refuge of the scoundrel and one of the major wellsprings of
human
>misery.
>
> John K Clark
johnkc@well.com
>
>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: 2.6.i
>
>iQCzAgUBNSry5n03wfSpid95AQEIfQTw0ocRKCXOUBWFvmOMxUc4up1xUgDlHW1/
>dfRUkOjZKZntnPJYhVQ3xPBPnnfsVHu7eayGIS7+11vhplXGDBCeofDTpyoTzHYa
>XiC/e72f4bhtoXgzBR8vY46pheRzClNdyyjvylJY4gFeImHk56cAbhdFcmFF844k
>xc1WBHxAK5NzDU9MPzaAHLj7G37yeVcP734fFCnL/bb84Xt28X0=
>=ufvp
>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of extropians-digest V2 #442
>********************************
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 14:49:05 MST