From: James Daugherty (daugh@home.msen.com)
Date: Fri Mar 06 1998 - 06:18:51 MST
Collectives are real entities, conscious beings. They subsume individuals to
the extent that individuals are unconscious. Memes are to collectives as genes
are to biological organisms.
As Gurdjieff pointed-out, most individuals fail to be individuals. They are
cells in social organisms controlled by the collective's memetic
field....similar to the Borg.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Freespeak <f-prime@activist.com>
To: f-prime@activist.com <f-prime@activist.com>
Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 1:43 AM
Subject: Identifying Pemes
|At 10:58 PM 3/5/98 -0500, "John Fast"
|<jfast@fastindustries.com> wrote:
|>
|>Freespeak wrote:
|>
|>[snip]
|>
|>>I speculate that the power, survival, and expansion of
|>>coercive political systems depend on "subjects" acting
|>>more or less in blind obedience to their peme programs.
|>>To the extent that individuals free themselves from their
|>>peme programs, coercive political systems lose their
|>>power over these individuals.
|>
|>I agree -- we need to free ourselves from coercion
|>from both external and internal sources. Coercive
|>memes -- political and otherwise -- are "false gods"
|>that people worship, instead of using conscious,
|>rational choice (a/k/a the Holy Spirit).
|>>
|>>I don't know the origin of peme programs. Maybe they
|>>stem from some kind of "spontaneous cultural or genetic
|>>conspiracy." Historically, the disobedient disbelievers
|>>had their heads chopped off or were burnt at the stake.
|>>The survivors were the ones who behaved in accordance
|>>with peme programs.
|>
|>Remember Gurdjieff's comment, "Fairness?
|>Decency? How can you have fairness and
|>decency on a planet full of sleeping people?!"
|>
|Maybe the unwitting use of pemes in thought and
|communication stems from a form of sleep.
|
|>>At 10:10 AM 3/5/98 -0700, Mark Lindsay <ppi@amug.org> wrote:
|>>>
|>>>When I read [your peme article], I was reminded of a
|>>>science fiction novel 'The Mind Parasites,' by Colin
|>>>Wilson. He used the metaphor of parasites taking over
|>>>people's minds and controlling them. Perhaps a science
|>>>fiction novel could also help express what you've written
|>>>about pemes.
|>>>
|>>Is anyone out there interested in writing an SF novel
|>>on pemes. I would be happy to collaborate and ensure
|>>publication, if we can produce a worthwhile product.
|>
|>I've been interested in this ever since I read
|>Jaynes' _The Origin of Consciousness in the
|>Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind_.
|>
|I've extended the Jaynes paradigm to include what I call
|"bicameral stage 2" -- see <http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/wua5.htm>.
|
|Maybe the inability to recognize pemes as such is
|an aspect of bicameral stage 2.
|
|>>I don't think this thread should be about proving
|>>anyone "right" or "wrong." It should rather be
|>>about determining the validity or otherwise of
|>>my peme theory. If valid, then the next step
|>>would be to identify all the pemes and to discover
|>>how people can clear them from their brains.
|>
|>"The problem with the Unconscious is that it's
|>unconscious."
|
|Yes! In general, just as in my areas of ignorance
|I tend to be ignorant of my ignorance, where I'm
|unconscious I'm also unconscious of my unconsciousness.
|Both ignorance and unconsciousness tend to hide
|themselves.
|>>
|>>Maybe you could make a list of all the pemes
|>>you've either cleared from your brain, or were
|>>never infected by in the first place.
|>
|>Easier said than done, of course. How do we
|>know if there's something invisible out there,
|>or nothing there at all? Hardest of all, how
|>can we even start to look for what, by definition,
|>we don't even realize is there?
|>
|Two questions may help us identify the pemes:
|
|(1) Which words/concepts -- if I accept and use
|them the way most people habitually do -- place
|me at a disadvantage in relation to the political
|"masters?" (Which words tend to increase the power
|of politicians and bureaucrats, while reducing the
|power of their victims?)
|
|(2) Which words, if the political "masters" didn't
|have them nor any equivalents for them, would
|dramatically reduce the power of politicians and
|bureaucrats?
|
|>Fortunately, there are cognitive techniques that
|>work to let us know when we are "in the presence
|>of the Unconscious." What alerted astronomers
|>to look for the outer planets was the fact that
|>they caused disturbances in the behavior
|>of the already-known planets. So, we can look
|>for disturbances in our own behavior or emotional
|>reactions, in order to know whether and what to
|>look for. The book _The Projection Principle_
|>has a bunch of techniques for doing this.
|>
|I have that book somewhere; I'll check it out.
|
|Frederick Mann
|------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|-- Robert LeFevre
|"We are free not because we claim freedom, but because we practice it."
|-- William Faulkner
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