From: Michael M. Butler (butler@comp*lib.org)
Date: Sat Feb 14 1998 - 15:54:53 MST
Jim:
Not word games, not "my need for an argument"--real philosophy that you may
not have considered thoroughly. Sorry to have been perceived that way.
OK, I'll go for a counterexample--bear with me, here, and I'll avoid any
trace of irony. You have my word.
Do you know what a "Rattleback" is? It's a kid's toy. Edmund's sells them,
you can get them at the Exploratorium gift shop, etc.
It is based on (fundamentally identical to) the shape of certain water-worn
stones. It has the curious physical property that when you set it on a flat
surface, it has a preferred direction of spin.
Nature did the work of shaping the stones. Humans noticed the curious
behavior.
OK, now you tell me: 1) Who designed the rattleback toy? 2) Where did the
design come from?
One counterexample is all it takes. :) I believe this shows that a blind
watchmaker still makes watches. Please poke substantive holes in this
reasoning--if you do so, you will help me to learn to think better.
MMB
At 02:33 PM 2/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>"Michael M. Butler" <butler@comp*lib.org> writes:
>[regarding the "design" of the human body]
>>It is designed. I am designing my body right now. Many other people
>are
>>designing theirs, including bodysculptors.
>
>There is a difference between design and modification. If I take my
>car to a shop and have it painted a new color or change the muffler I
>can make no claim to the design of the car. When you can "design"
>yourself another liver come and talk to me...
No, you miss my point--I have a high level list of things I want my body to
be able to do. I lack the technology to implement my design--but that
doesn't mean I'm not doing design.
>>Oh. I see. You think anyone who uses the word "design" to refer to
>anything
>>that did not take the conscious effort of some human is a (perhaps
>closet)
>>Creationist/Deist/Teleological BAD PERSON, and NEEEDS to have the
>faith
>>reinstated, or a kick in the behind.
>
>Oh. I see. You want to play silly word games. To create new
>meanings for words to fit your need for an argument. You think that
>just because the definition of the word "design" in the context it is
>being used here requires a designer (e.g. "conscious effort" to
>attain a predetermined goal) there is no reason that you cannot make
>up a new definition and then attack the original argument for not
>using your new definition.
No, see above. The question of where design comes from really matters to
me. I avoid cheap thinking on the subject. I should probably have prefixed
my comments with (po), but you may not know what that word means either. :)
Peace, Jim: I was playing, but seriously--sorry if my litany was
interpreted as me ragging on you.
MMB
"Love is the product of compassion and liberty,
not one at the expense of the other." -- Liam A. Chu
(RU a bot? If not, be advised *s are flagged as 'net address ERRORS;
MY address is thus munged. Kindly hyphenate. "Go team, beat SP*M.")
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