From: Mike Coward (mikec@ilnk.com)
Date: Thu Oct 30 1997 - 18:50:08 MST
----------
> From: Paul Wakfer <70023.3041@compuserve.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 10:40 AM
>
> > From: Mike Coward <mikec@ilnk.com>
> > Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 7:27 AM
>
> > > From: Paul Wakfer <70023.3041@compuserve.com>
> > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:09:37 -0500, "Mike Coward" wrote:
>
> > > >> From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
> > > >> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 4:31 AM
>
<SNIP!>
> I always maintain that one of the fundamental mistakes that extropians,
> transhumanists, nanotechnologists, uploaders, AI people, etc make is
> grossly underestimating human and brain complexity.
It is complex, but I think it will not be too hard to reproduce it's
PURPOSE.
I don't think I need an AI that thinks it's nervous.
> > How rapidly could I change red/white cell counts?
> > If it is controlable enough I could:
> > A)increase plasma during feeding.
> > B)increase red cell during exercise.
> > C)increase white cell during cleansing.
>
> a) For plasma volume increase give electrolytes plus colloid.
> There are standard medical plasma expanders available.
>
> b) For increase red blood cells take testosterone (a slow method)
> or get a direct transfusion of compatible red cells
> or drain you own blood and add plasma expander, this will lower
> hematocrit and cause spleen to empty its red cell reservoir and
> to manufacture more, then transfuse own blood back.
> Walla! super high hematocrit!
> c) I can think of no way to do this at present except by infecting
> yourself with many things which you have previously been vacinnated
> against.
>
> The real question is why would you want to do any of these things?
I want to optimize my body for the actions it is performing.
Efficiency is important to me.
Why eat calories for function I do not want?
> > >Temperature regulation is done directly by
> > > each cell in response to thyroid hormones and others information
> > transmitters
> > > all the blood does is even out the temperature from one spot to the
> > other.
> > > So you are correct that more blood volume could aid in preventing
"hot
> > spots"
> > > where additional free radical damage might be increased by the higher
> > > temperature.
>
> > In case you missed my point I will try to explain.
> > Heat is not soley within the cells.
>
> But by far the larger part is generated there.
I want to take the load off the cells so they wear slower,
to make life simple for them.
I what to be their protector, not mearly their keeper.
> > As water being rapidly pumped through the system
> > disperses warm blood amongst cold blood
> > the mean temperature is more easily kept regular(regulated).
>
> True enough as far as I understand you. But it the blood flow is
> so fast and the blood volume so large (all 5 liters of your blood
> cycled through your body every minute) and the capillaries so close
> to every cell, that the body temperature will not vary much from
> one point to another as long as you maintain good circulation.
I think that's what I said.
> > That's what I want.
> > A machine that replentishes the blood supply.
> > Out with the old, in with the new.
> > No eating, no drinking, no breathing, no muss, no fuss,
> > that's the life for me.
>
> But red blood cells don't have anything to do with food.
I know,
I was talking about replentishing all parts of the blood
(including O as a nutrient, I can't think of a better word).
>They only
> carry oxygen and transfused one will likely even be difficient of that
> You will have to breath even more to reoxygenate them.
Are you telling me their is no possible way to artificially reoxygenate
blood?
Trying to replace organs is a great way of learning about what they do.
You can look at the body and see what is not being done.
> You body is already a very efficient and quite optimal life support
> system for your brain. Don't you realize that's what its real
> purpose is?
Yes, but I did not know it was designed for that.
>
> > > From: Paul Wakfer <70023.3041@compuserve.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 3:04 AM
>
> > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:51:19, Mike Coward wrote:
>
> > > > From: Paul Wakfer <70023.3041@compuserve.com>
> Read the books that I mentioned before. There is no "royal road" to
> learning. It takes time and hard work.
I can't get books often.:-(
> > > I see where you are coming from (and trying to get to). I like the
> idea.
> > > The problem is that the body is far too complicated physiologically
and
> > > biochemically, and our understanding is far too limited, for anything
> > like
> > > what you want to be possible for decades to come.
>
> > ERROR.
> > GIVEN DATA UNACCEPTABLE.
>
> Sorry, reality must always be acceptable else you are not all "here".
United Nations'
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 1
All Human beings are endowed with reason.
I was just implying that the present situation was not good enough.
>
> Are you searching medline or the Internet? For all searching it is
> necessary to be very creative about the terms and names. You need to
> think of all possible ways the subject might be expressed.
I consider medline as part of the internet.
It's abstracts often come up in my web searches.
>
> > > tongues can be very useful for lots of fun things.
> > > I wouldn't want to be without one. :)
>
> > I would rather not have to worry about any more cells the I have to.
> > I just another mouth to feed.:-)
>
> But the cells of one part seldom produce free radicals which affect
another.
It makes heat and requires nutrients that coulod be better spent elsewhere
but I probably won't bother to chop it.
> But you were born too early for what you long to do.
Too late for free love,
too early for free life.
> Knowing the general incompetence of governments including the military,
> I am not one who believes that they have any special high tech things
> that surpass public science and engineering and no one knows about.
> This idea is just so much nonsense.
If this were true cutting-edge scientists would often be forced into
silence
in the interest of national security.
I'm not saying it does not happen,
but I hope it doesn't happen that often.
> > > > I could get better lungs( transplants, biotech implants, bionics).
>
> > > Not for a long time yet. Our natural ones a pretty damned good.
>
> > Emergency life support systems work pretty well.
> > They last as long as your insurance.
>
> You are mixed up on what these do and what is essential. When young
> healthy firemen get burned lungs, they *cannot* be saved. They die!
I do not believe life new saving technologies are beyond today's
capabilities.
All we have to do is get the right people to cooperate with eachother.
Getting O into red cells seems quite easy.
> > Good books are hard to find.
>
> Start with _Harper's Biochemistry_ 24th edition.
>
> > White cells use free-rads to help fight germs too( rads not books).
>
> Quite correct. You're not as dumb as you look! :)
>
> > I wonder if they get out of control.
>
> A bit. No "search and destroy" operation is going to be totally
efficient.
Could white cells eventually be replaced with anti-biotics
or due they perform other functions?
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