From: The Low Golden Willow (phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu)
Date: Thu Sep 18 1997 - 18:45:29 MDT
On Sep 19, 11:48pm, Joao Pedro wrote:
} Eric Watt Forste wrote:
} > I prefer
} > voluntary solutions, perhaps as a matter of taste, and Coase has
} Voluntary actions? You're talking of voluntary, unselfish actions from
} the same species that constantly kills, destroys and robs other members
} of the same species? I don't think that's possible in today's world,
Constantly? No city could exist if people constantly did the things you
say. Civilization is the great refutation of claims that the mass of
humanity is irredeemably shortsightedly selfish and violent.
} In all your messages there is a hate towards government, I also despise
} politicians but don't corporations 'own' the government, even in the
} U.S.? It's the same thing, the same problem.
Er, no. The tobacco companies aren't doing so well, for one. No one
owns the system; it's a mess of conflicting interests. Old liberalism
trusted no one with power, but recognized that power could not be
abolished, so sought to multiply the sources of it and set them in
opposition to each other. The US Constitution may owe more to Newton
than to Locke. Set them all at loggerheads and let power cancel itself
out. Voters have power, and sitting politicians have power, and
corporations have power, and celebrities have power, and judges have
power... the balance shifts back and forth, but rarely is dominated by
any one faction (and of course, none of the groups I just listed are
monolithic entities.)
} I'll be honest, I don't know what negative feedback is and I know
} nothing of basic economics but I always knew that
Oy veh! You expect us to write an introductory economics textbook for
you? Perhaps we should teach you what the periodic table is as well?
Negative feedback is when a process generates other processes which act
against it. If the temperature in my house goes down the thermostat
turns on the heater, raising the temperature back to the desired level.
If a star collapsed a bit more, it would raise the core temperature,
raising the rate of fusion, and thus raising the pressure keeping the
star from collapsing any further.
Positive feedback is when a process stimulates itself -- a clump of mass
attracts more matter, and thus has more gravity with which to attract
more matter, which brings more gravity...
} "united we stand,
} divided we fall". If a corporation starts achieving a substantial
} advantage towards everyone else, as it grows, it will eventually become
} more efficient, more capable, will be able to have the most competitive
Hardly necessarily. Alongside economies of scale are prices of scale.
An insect can get its oxygen through simple diffusion. Big things like
us need hearts and blood vessels to move oxygen and food around. A
large corporation needs be more complex, and thus has slower response
times, and administrative costs, etc. It works well for mass producing
standard products, poorly for high quality specialty goods. Thus the
failure of supermarkets to drive out all the small bread and cheese
stores in a well-off city.
"united we fall, when we make one dumb mistake which effects us all [see
China]; divided we grow, as diversity explores many different ways of
doing something, and keeps the effects of mistakes localized, and
preserves healthy areas which can regenerate the loss."
} Besides, many persons are also selfish and greedy. The consumer, the
} common citizen doesn't know and doesn't care about environmental issues.
Well, that explains why the Western world rose up and banned CFCs. Must
have been those nasty Freon producing corporations who told their
owned governments to...
} EvMick says that free-market works, my question is for whom, for the
} persons who are already wealthy or for the ones who are poor and have
} nothing?
The free market of cities has done more, over time, to turn poor people
into well-off middle class citizen than anything else. The Church did
not raise the poor. Welfare has not raised the poor. Communism -- many
attempts -- did not raise the poor. It was the burgs which created the
bourgeois, who'd once been poor. All, of course, have had some sort of
law-and-order government.
Jane Jacobs argues that the most productive arrangement of humanity is
in city-states with free trade. The most military arrangement of
humanity is, alas, in nation-states, and thus the current world.
} ask you something, do you think that the poorer classes generated by
} free-markets will stand still? My bet is that they'll riot and that is
Poverty has no causes! Only prosperity has causes. Poverty and
ignorance are the natural state of humanity, which we work to rise
above. The market does not generate poor people; it generates poor
classes only insofar as it generates rich classes, creating a contrast
with those who have not risen as far.
Merry part,
-xx- Damien R. Sullivan X-) <*> http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix
On TWA 800
"Also, if judged by past behavior, the US Navy does not lie about shooting
down airliners. When the Vincennes downed the Airbus, the Navy admitted they
did it, held an investigation, axed the skipper, and the US government
ultimately made reparations to the families. I think we should give the navy
the benefit of the doubt if they say they didn't do it."
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