From: Michael Lorrey (retroman@tpk.net)
Date: Thu Jul 17 1997 - 17:56:07 MDT
Mark Grant wrote:
>
> > But I still don't like the
> > inconsistencies that debunkers continue to ignore, and rely on gov't
> > assertions contrary to truth, and evidence of records tampering and
> > descruction.
>
> Personally I don't like the way that believers ignore the very plain fact
> that all contemporary accounts match that of a Mogul balloon and these
> accounts weren't challenged until a third of a century later. Or do you
> really believe that alien spacecraft are held together with scotch tape?
Even though they finally dug up a minor classified program that they
were able to use to fit the facts that they previously admitted to, the
facts that they have also admitted to destroying all of the paperwork to
do with the incident, and that they don't know who destroyed it, even
though regs for recording of such records destruction were in place at
the time, and the fact that they had to come up with TWO stories to fit
ALL of the public claims about the story merely raise a flag with me. As
I said prevously, I still think that Roswell is in all likelyhood what
it is and is being used by gov't disinformation agencies to develop
misdirection toward their true classified programs. I am not a UFO nut.
I am into researching black programs and bringing them to light, as I
feel that an open society like ours should not have any programs that
the citizenry does not know about. ROswell has come into my radar scope
merely because of all of the interesting inconsistencies that would
raise flags in the mind of an investigator that had not already
prejudicially come to a conclusion about the case.
>
> > Nope, it was a report by a soldier who claimed to be at the crash site
> > of the full vehicle, not the Brazel ranch.
>
> Again, if the saucer didn't exist then such reports don't matter. I mean,
> I could claim to have been at the crash site and been temporally
> distorted to the 1990s, but it wouldn't make it true.
This would be the easiest thing to prove. If you had been temporally
displaced a number of years, and your dissapearance had been documented,
then you would be living proof that such an event occured.
however, the soldier was not displaced for years, just that he claimed
that what felt like a few minutes inside was actually several hours
outside.
>
> > If its all cultural related to current scifi literature projections of
> > technology, where are the cyber abductions? Where are the "I was
> > uploaded by an alien" stories?
>
> How often do you see those on Star Trek? They haven't yet filtered down
> into popular culture.
Lets see, Kess had the mind of an alien warlord uploaded to her mind,
then you have the Borg, and there was an episode from the original show
that used a similar device...
Then you have movies like Johnny Mnemonic and Lawnmower Man and TV shows
like Tek War and VR5, etc..
>
> > The reports I've seen said that the materials, when looked at under a
> > microscope, looked like they were made up of bazillions of microscopic
> > welds.
> > This would necessitate a welding machine the size of bacteria, eh?
>
> Possibly, but why should anyone believe the reports? And why would anyone
> with the ability to build such a machine bother with 'welding'? Why not
> just stick it together atom by atom to produce a perfect surface?
Ever hear that a proper weld is stronger than the material being welded?
imagine the whole sheet being nothing but microscopic welds. Perhaps
such a culture has not been able to develop nanotech to the atomic level
that some people here dream about. Maybe they had but it is not
economical and this technique is a good cost effective compromise.
>
> > Corso was at the base at the time. This is known.
>
> Interesting; evidence?
Gee, only DOD records, White House pictures, Pentagon phone books, the
usual. He WAS an intelligence officer for several decades and was at
Roswell at the time.
>
> > You forget the bureaucratic machine. Don't have something on base?
> > where's the right contractor? From what I've seen of Area 51, its all
> > contractor run. From my own experience on many bases, most of the
> > logisitics stuff is handled by civilians and contractors.
>
> And you think that such an organisation could keep this 'crashed alien
> spacecraft' a secret for thirty-three years? Why is ignoring these
> inconsistencies bad for 'debunkers', but fine for believers?
>
SOmething as mundane as the SR-71 was kept secret for ten years, as was
the F-117. Lets imagine that our government concluded from the wreckage
that the alleged aliens were from a socialist planet. What do you think
they would have done? THis was the McCarthy era, mind you. Mere actors
were being blacklisted for life just because they refused to lie about
their freinds to congress. The last thing they needed during the entire
cold war, and even today, is for the population at large to know that
there is a superior culture on another planet that they think is
socialist.
I see nothing inconsistent about it. As a matter of fact, the new
government story proves that they CAN keep a secret for 50 years. They
did not declassify the Mogul project until recently, did they not? and
that, in respect to the greatest event in human history, is a mere
unmentionable footnote. So they can keep a secret for 50 years....
>
> > The photos released were several days later, after Gen Ramey had put the
> > cover story in place. Considering that weather balloons were heavily
> > used by the weather people on base, gussying up something in a day or so
> > would be rather easy.
>
> So. You have evidence that anything was substituted? *Marcel says that the
> photo is genuine*. You disbelieve your prime witness?
Marcel said at the followup press conference where the "evidence" was
presented that this was the "true" wreckage. He later recanted this
according to what I've read.
>
> > According to Brazel, the eve before he initially found the scattered
> > peices (June 15th), he and his family experienced a huge explosive
> > sound, louder in his opinion than the lightning that was common on
> > summer evenings in that area.
>
> Hmm, do you have a source for this?
The testimony of Brazel and his family. The earlier testimony you posted
was from an interview he gave to the local paper after he had been
detained for two days by the feds. He has said that they worked him over
mentally pretty badly, making all sorts of threats if he opened his
mouth at the time...
>
> > But the mogul project was BASED at Roswell. If anyone knew what a Mogul
> > balloon was, it would have been the people at Roswell field.
>
> Alamogordo. Sorry.
Alamagodo is about an hour drive from Roswell....
>
> > Anyways, outside of the radio reciever, the mogul balloon was exactly
> > like a normal weather balloon. The radar reflectors were for radar
> > tracking of the balloon.
>
> Well, according to the Sceptical Enquirer:
>
> "While many UFO proponents claim the wreckage shown in General Ramey's
> office was just a weather balloon switched for the "real debris," Moore
> pointed out that the radar targets used by NYU were unlike anything flown
> in New Mexico before and that "they were not available in Fort Worth to be
> substituted for the debris in General Ramey's office." Warrant Officer
> Newton was able to recognize the debris in General Ramey's office because
> he happened to have used an early version of the same targets while
> serving as a weatherman in Okinawa. The earlier-model targets Newton used
> did not have the reinforcing tape with the pinkish-purple flower designs."
>
> But I guess Moore (one of the Project Mogul scientists) is just part of the
> government coverup, right?
The purple flower tape was not shown in the photo, nor has it been
recognised by Marcel,as far as I know.
>
--
TANSTAAFL!!!
Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------
mailto:retroman@tpk.net Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
Agent Lorrey@ThePentagon.com
Silo_1013@ThePentagon.com http://www.tpk.net/~retroman/
Mikey's Animatronic Factory
My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA)
MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday
Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH)
------------------------------------------------------------
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]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}
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