From: ard (rbrown@smb.sams.ch)
Date: Fri Apr 18 1997 - 23:15:00 MDT
A couple of weeks ago, we had the opportunity to thumb through a weekly
American magazine called TIME, perhaps you have heard of it. It is filled
with short, shallow articles on a variety of topics. One article was about
encryption for computers which would make it too expensive for the State to
break. This was tied in with E-Money being the new world currency.
Scenario: With encryption on our PC we have secrecy concerning our
financial affairs if we use E-Money. The spread of E-Money will break the
STATE/BANKS and their monopoly on the money supply. It will also cause the
collapse of governments because of the vastly increased underground economy
which cannot be taxed.
The author seemed to be unaware that the STATE could very easily tax
something that cannot be hidden, such as real estate, which they do
already. So the STATE might be thwarted in attacking production and merely
take its share of the "action" via the spot where our home or business is
located. The BANKS would lose their nice marriage to the STATE and would
have to compete on the open market. With property tax, people get one tax
bill, no forms to fill out, just a bill marked "Pay this amount....."
Renters pay with greatly increased rent. Businesses use property
efficiently. Land speculation goes bust. Property values drop. The only
way out of paying taxes is to have your home or business off of STATE
controlled real estate. (although the effect of taxes, reflected in the
higher cost of goods and services, would still be experienced).
That, my friends, suggests Cities, Floating on the Sea and in the Air.
Private Cities, which provide (no roads of course...who would need them?)
the structure for living, playing, working. Cities, which compete by
giving better service for less. Cities, which provide the space for
automated hydroponic farms. Cities, freed from the STATE. Cities,
providing all the variety or sameness one wishes. (Although EXTROS,
midgets, and animal trainers would probably not find a City just for
them.....perhaps a neighborhood..........a BIG neighborhood, mind you...)
:-)
Well, we can just let our imagination run rampant with orgasmic joy at the
changes to be wrought by the creation of a tool for war. (The Internet, of
course.) It looks like it is going to eat its MAKER. My, my...the times
they are a changin...
ard
----------
> From: extropians@maxwell.lucifer.com
> To: Rbrown
> Subject: extropians-digest V2 #106
> Date: Freitag, 18. April 1997 14:38
>
>
>
> extropians-digest Friday, 18 April 1997 Volume 02 : Number
106
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: John Blanco-Losada <jbl@clark.net>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 10:36:19 -0400
> Subject: HUMOR - Internet Mailing List Demographics
>
> Not sure if this is entirely on-topic, but given the "nitpickiness" of
> some of the recent discussions here the following at least rang some
> bells with me. Enjoy, and I apologize in advance to any of you who have
> already seen this.
>
> >>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
> >>> to change a light bulb?
> >>>
> >>> A: 1,331:
> >>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
> >>> list that the light bulb has been changed
> >>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light
> >>> bulbs and how the light bulb could have been
> >>> changed differently.
> >>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
> >>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
> >>> changing light bulbs.
> >>> 53 to flame the spell checkers
> >>> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about
> >>> the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness
> >>> to this mail list.
> >>> 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
> >>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
> >>> to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
> >>> 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,
> >>> alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing
> >>> light bulbs be stopped.
> >>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we
> >>> are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts
> >>> **are** relevant to this mail list.
> >>> 306 to debate which method of changing light
> >>> bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,
> >>> what brand of light bulbs work best for this
> >>> technique, and what brands are faulty.
> >>> 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of
> >>> different light bulbs
> >>> 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
> >>> to post corrected URLs.
> >>> 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that
> >>> are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs
> >>> relevant to this list.
> >>> 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote
> >>> them including all headers and footers, and then
> >>> add "Me Too."
> >>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing
> >>> because they cannot handle the light bulb
> >>> controversey.
> >>> 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
> >>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
> >>> 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
> >>> 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
> >>> was meant for, leave it here.
> >>> 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Blanco-Losada "You must be the change
> jbl@clark.net you wish to see
> http://www.clark.net/pub/jbl/jbl.html in the world." - M. Gandhi
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Michael Lorrey <retroman@tpk.net>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:13:01 -0400
> Subject: Re: Life Extension through legislation or the free market
>
> > ----------
> > > From: Dan Hook <guldann@ix.netcom.com>
> > > To: extropians@extropy.org
> > > Subject: Life Extension through legislation or the free market
> > > Date: Tuesday, April 15, 1997 8:51 PM
> > >
> > > That's a rather interesting idea, but it should be able to work in
the
> > free
> > > market as well. Get a lot of people to pledge a certain amount of
money
> > > for significant life extension. For twenty years I'd be willing to
put
> > up
> > > $10,000. Now, just get 100,000 people to do this as well and you
would
> > > have a prize worth one billion. How many immortalists are there?
> > >
>
> THere is a book just out, I believe called _Longitude_ about the
> Englishman who solved the problem of longitudinal navigation.
> Apparently, the Parliament put up a big prize to the person who could
> solve the problem. He solved it by developing highly accurate clocks and
> a system of astronomical and velocity based tables. THis is probably the
> most famous and commercially beneficial application of the invention
> bounty, though there are currently prizes up for many different
> engineering acheivements, and if you remember, Paul MacCready developed
> his human powered airplanes in the 80's to win such prizes put up by
> private organizations, doing a mile loop, then spanning the English
> Channel, and then the course from Crete to Greece that was mythically
> taken by Deadalus.
>
> If you note the progression MacCready took, winning each prize along the
> way, this might be a good blueprint to go by, having cash prizes to
> individuals or teams that extend human life past 120, 150, 200, and 500
> years. Given that the sums will be waiting for that amount of time to
> mature, they will be earning a goodly amount of interest while they wait
> for those spans to complete.
>
> As for cryonics, which realistically is by definition NOT life
> extension, but suspension, as a corpsicle is not aware, cognizant etc
> while under suspension, I would suggest prizes for successfull revival
> of various higher mammals as intermediary steps, with human revival as
> only the final one. Of course, there will also need to be prizes for
> anciallary technologies like nano that will be required for reparation
> of corpsicles to full capability.
> - --
> TANSTAAFL!!!
> Michael Lorrey
> - ------------------------------------------------------------
> mailto:retroman@tpk.net Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
> Agent Lorrey@ThePentagon.com
> Silo_1013@ThePentagon.com http://www.tpk.net/~retroman/
>
> Mikey's Animatronic Factory
> My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA)
> MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday
> Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH)
> - ------------------------------------------------------------
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl-0777---export-a-crypto-system-sig-RC4-3-lines-PERL
> @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
> ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
> &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: GeoffCobb@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:44:20 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: META: traffic-limited list idea
>
> In a message dated 97-04-17 01:40:07 EDT,Lee D writes:
>
> >
> > Yes, exactly, so you'll just have to spend your own tokens on your
> > own ideas, and no one will stop you. If people reply, they reply.
> > If they don't, they don't. Are you suggesting that minority topics
> > ought to get /more/ time than their accurate share of interest?
> > Minority interests are always protected better by a free market
> > than by any consensus-based system.
>
> Minority, isn't that pretty much everyone transhuman? ; - )
> META:
> Of those who benefit, a certain number of them will be those who travel
or
> are often too busy to write. Those who have the luxury of time, and post
> often will have to limit, others will have more than they use.
> IMO you have no control over quality, but the system makes for LESS
posting
> in general, limiting the list by numbers of words alone, if I am reading
it
> correctly.
> Question: When I return from a business trip or an extended work
schedule,
> will
> I have a lot of tokens stacked up? Or do they expire....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: GeoffCobb@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:47:40 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: Help: Communicate: Organize (Make Friend Not Associate):
Intro: Scott Pai...
>
> In a message dated 97-04-17 06:24:13 EDT, you write:
>
> > metamorph:
> > I change in drasticly positive ways.
>
> Automorph
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: hanson@hss.caltech.edu (Robin Hanson)
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> Michael Lorrey writes:
> >THere is a book just out, I believe called _Longitude_ about the
> >Englishman who solved the problem of longitudinal navigation.
> >Apparently, the Parliament put up a big prize to the person who could
> >solve the problem. He solved it by developing highly accurate clocks and
> >a system of astronomical and velocity based tables. THis is probably the
> >most famous and commercially beneficial application of the invention
> >bounty, though there are currently prizes up for many different
> >engineering acheivements, and if you remember, Paul MacCready developed
> >his human powered airplanes in the 80's to win such prizes put up by
> >private organizations, doing a mile loop, then spanning the English
> >Channel, and then the course from Crete to Greece that was mythically
> >taken by Deadalus.
>
> I have a paper "Patterns of Patronage: Why Grants Won Over Prizes in
> Science" (http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/whygrants.ps), with an
> empirical study that suggests that the reason the once common prize
> was replaced by grants was that governments became the dominant
> research patron. So the current infrequency of prizes relative to
> grants should not overly discourage private patrons from using prizes.
> Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
>
> Robin D. Hanson hanson@hss.caltech.edu http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: James Rogers <jamesr@best.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:06:28 -0700
> Subject: HUMOR: FW:Sorry for the delay
>
> Forward:
> >>> >STARDATE 10357.22 (March 28, 1997)
> >
> >>> >To: Heaven's Gate Personnel:
> >
> >>> > DUE TO EXTENSIVE TAIL WINDS CAUSED BY THE COMET HALE-BOPP, PICKUP
> >>> > OF THE 39 PASSENGERS HAS BEEN DELAYED UNTIL 3024 WHEN WE PASS THE
> >>> > PLANET AGAIN.
> >>> >
> >>> > DO NOT EAT THE PUDDING AT THIS TIME
> >>> >
> >>> > *** REPEAT ***
> >>> >
> >>> > DO NOT EAT THE PUDDING AT THIS TIME
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Mike Rose <mich_ros@alcor.concordia.ca>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:36:26 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Robin Hanson wrote:
>
> > Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
>
> This thread started with Robert Anton Wilson's excellent idea in
> Schrodinger's Cat.
>
> I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you see
> a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> "The future exists first in the imagination, then in will, then in
> reality." -B.M.Hubbard
>
> Nobody believes in their dreams any more, only if they get rewarded with
> the surrogate american dream of MONEY MONEY MONEY!!
>
> it is a sad state of affairs.
>
>
> M.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> -)(- FOR FURTHUR INFORMATION, CONSULT YOUR PINEAL GLAND -)(-
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> Chemical keys and Magick Password available from all fine Discordian
outlets
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: hanson@hss.caltech.edu (Robin Hanson)
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes
>
> Mike Rose writes:
> >I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> >incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> >pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you
see
> >a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> But these other incentives are quite strong and growing. The trouble
> is that it is hard to affect other's perceptions of the pride, fame,
> thrill, etc. they will feel with different outcomes. It is much
> easier to affect their perception of the amount of money to be won.
> That is the whole point of money, after all, to make it easier to give
> other people what they want so they will do things you want.
>
> Robin D. Hanson hanson@hss.caltech.edu http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Lee Daniel Crocker <lcrocker@calweb.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> > > Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
> >
> > This thread started with Robert Anton Wilson's excellent idea in
> > Schrodinger's Cat.
>
> The idea is much older than that: prizes for invention predate
> the relatively recent idea of patents by centuries, and have
> much to recommend them over the present approach.
>
> > I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> > incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> > pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you
see
> > a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> All of those things--pride, achievement, thrill--are income, and no
> different than any other form of income. What each person desires,
> and what efforts he is willing to put in to obtain them, is a
> personal matter, different for each person on the planet. "Money"
> is a wonderful invention that allows different people to compare
> their desires more accurately and facilitate exchange. It is only
> a mechanism, not the end goal. But since everyone wants different
> things, if I want to give someone a prize for a certain task, money
> makes it possible for me to offer something of value to more people.
> If I offerred my labor, some may not want it. If I offered fame,
> some won't care. But if I offer money--interchangeable for all of
> those things--then everyone can participate, and use the money to
> buy what /he/ wants instead of what I might want to give him.
>
> Someone might very well prefer the feeling of accomplishment at a
> job well done, but that's his business, not mine; and there's no
> reason he can't have that /and/ the money.
>
> > Nobody believes in their dreams any more, only if they get rewarded
> > with the surrogate american dream of MONEY MONEY MONEY!!
> > It is a sad state of affairs.
>
> A meaningless tirade that people use to excuse the fact that they
> don't feel like doing what's necessary to achieve their goals, or
> by those whose goals aren't imaginitive enough. It would indeed be
> irrational to seek green squares of paper for their own sake; but
> any person with goals, who wants to interact with others freely to
> achieve those goals, would find those pieces of paper to be his
> handiest tool. Seeking money is a sign that you have goals, and
>
> <<< Continued to next message >>>
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