From: natashavita@earthlink.net
Date: Wed Nov 27 2002 - 15:50:49 MST
From: Brett Paatsch:
Natasha wrote:
>>Is cowboy mentality a positive or negative characteristic?
>Its quite interesting reading from Australian what various
perspectives are from different parts of the world.<
You have written a provoking response to my post, and the many
interpretations of the cowboy throughout history, culture, myth and
storytelling is very revealing. Like all heroes, the cowboy walks a
chalkline of good and bad. Thinking about mythic lore, the Grecian heroes
were equally as daring and courageous, as well as irrational at times and
egocentric. The mythic superheroes and gods spent a lot of time upbraiding
others and even playing trigger-happy ticks. No wonder the modern cowboy
has been used in business as a questionable sort of character. :-) But, as
I said in my post, there are many attributable qualities which make the
cowboy worth of the lore.
>I was surprised to read in some recent posts that the UN
was as badly regarded in the US as it appears to be. I guess
its because in part its physically based there so
Americans or New Yorkers at least possible see it up close
warts n all more than the rest of us AND just recently
it's probably represented a frustrating "go slower"
counterpoint to be the more popular (doubtless media
influenced) American reaction to the Iraq situation. I don't
say that negatively at all. <
>With respect to the term cowboy, this actually gets used
in Australian corporate culture to denote someone who
acts precipitously with a sort of shoot from the hip and
sort out the damage latter type of attitude. A cowboy
"might" be a good salesman or a be able to churn out
rheams of code in the middle of the night to fix a tough
and esoteric problem but you'd let him in the IT network
room where standards and backups and being able to
reverse out any changes are important only "over your
dead body". <
Yes, Australia is filled with the new cowboy (I have several friends who
are film directors and actors who have always reminded me of saloon types,
in a charming way, of course.) But, the outback rings of cowboy drama.
And, the Aussie's have a pride that can be felt, to be sure. As an outlaw,
the cowboy (reminiscent of Buch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Jessie and
Frank James -- these guys we hate to love.) Modern musicians remind me of
these outlawish, sexy, handsome, rough-edged, guys in leather pants and
boots. (haha). Guys try to emanate them, women ... well.
BUT, as you say, the programmer who is a cowboy (I'm thinking hacker),
might be a business handicap, or not.
>It doesn't take too much thought to realize that to a young
pioneering country like the US, many of the self reliant, down
to earth qualities Natasha describes could be a matter for
some pride. Australians (who on psych tests tend to come
out close but not quite so strongly on independence (generally)
as the American's, seem to retain a similar sort of pride
(largely manufactured by media and cultural myth rather than
personal experience for city dwelling folk in 2002) in our
ourtback jack-of-all trades pioneers and bushies. (Even a tad
perversely the bushrangers which were criminals).<
Yes.
The seems to be a term Yanky know how that has a
comparable cultural meme hear. Apparently some English
general commented in world war 1 (I think) that if the world
were to fall apart tomorrow some Aussie would turn up and
get in running again with two bits of wire and a piece of string.
Were a urban lot now and quite different.
I think this goes back to world war I, when a lot more
Australians were rural and the drovers and shearers signed
up to support the British Commonwealth in (for us) relatively
large numbers. They had certain qualities of independence
and making do with their own resources (many of them would
probably say they were only allowed to be born after proving
they could shoot riding a horse) which probably correlates
reasonably well with the cowboy archetype Natasha refers.
Of course in both cases the romantic archetype probably
has more to do with mythology than fact. As I understand
it whilst the cowboys did work tough independent nomadic
lives, they didn't carry the Hollywood six gun on each hip
and it is really this stereotype, the trigger happy Hollywood,
gun totter that is referenced in corporate Australia's mildly
prejorative use of the term "cowboy".
It weird. Thhe Victoria state cricket team is called the
Bushrangers. That would maybe be the equivalent of having
a baseball or basketball team called the James Gang.
Just as a little irrelevant aside I would love and travel
extensively through both the US and Europe (I haven't
been to either yet but feel strong attachments to both).
The history I grew up learning here and TV which
disseminates culture means I feel a close attachment to
both these older regions of the world. To Australia America
is old! Australia enjoys some of the freedoms it does
not just from recent wars but from American, English and
French blood lost over barricades fighting for principles that
we were able to inherit and largely take for granted.
The whole US vs Europe thing that breaks out seems a
bit quirky to me. Especially amongst extropians. I understand
it on the intellectual level but on another level (from a country
thats only a couple of hundred years old and owes much
that is good about it to the influence of both regions and
cultures its a bit like observing with bewilderment a fight
between if not ones parents than at least ones older
siblings), you get the particular grievances voiced by
both sides but wonder why the immediate differences
seems to involve such a substantial loss (maybe temporary)
of perspective into the extent of the common backgrounds.<
I have a hard time understanding it on any level. Sure, I can
intellectualize it, rationalize it, and socialize it, but I'd rather not
burn neurons on it. I'm not sure I would call the quirky behavior coming
from extropians that would probably be too paradoxical. I guess I'd say
that it's coming from another slice of the brain that is not focused on
extropic thinking. We all have certain aspects of our behavior that is not
in par with who we want to be.
I'm still waiting for some smart thinking on these matters, and other
political difference that can be viewed as being an example of 21st
century, positive, rational, knowledgeable and fair.
Best to you,
Natasha
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