From: Eugen Leitl (eugen@leitl.org)
Date: Thu Oct 24 2002 - 11:04:01 MDT
<129BE00D9DC8D411927600805FA7152806556C20@groexmbcr11.pfizer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210241851210.11085-100000@hydrogen.leitl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-extropians@extropy.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Dickey, Michael F wrote:
> But to be in the same quantum state, they must occupy the same space,
No. You're wrong. Read it up.
> which is impossible. That is also the law. Thus one can not look at
Which law?
> a copy and an original and claim they are the same because there atoms
> and molecules are each individually identical, they are different
> because one is on the right of you and one is on the left.
That's not a property of the objects. Translation is featureless for
unlabeled space. That's a property of the observer. *You* are labelling
them. The composite system of you and first object and you and second
object is distinguishable.
> > would theoretically be different, but I'm not sure how that would
> > apply to your soul or psychological make up.
>
> "If you can build me a soul detector, you have a case."
>
> Its not necessary, just keep the original and the copy around and ask one
if
> he sees what the other sees, if not, there is no soul.
Two people in perfect sync see and think in unison. If they don't, they
are not in perfect sync.
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Jeff Davis wrote:
>
> > Each has a different history. One is "the original".
> > It is unique. It is the first of its kind. It is
> > 'unprecedented'. It's history runs from its moment of
> > origin, up to the present.
>
> "Please show you how you can tell which is the original, without resorting
> to external storage."
>
> It is not necessary to prove which one is the original to acknowledge that
> one of them must be.
Bzzzzt. You just resorted to external storage. Try again.
> "This is meaningless, as long as you can't provide a measurement procedure
> allowing you to tell two copies apart."
>
> You can, they do not occupy the same time and space, thus they are
different
> from one another.
Translation in a flat potential box does not change the quantum state of a
system (nonflat potential is equal to labelling space along the gradient).
If it did, equilibrium constant would break, and the world as we know it
would cease to exist. We all would die instantly.
Because we're alive you're wrong.
> "Why do we keep having the same discussion, year, after year, after year?"
>
> Because all of our lives and existence depend on this subject.
Stuff and nonsense. CR, or morphing to a healthy lifestyle, or relocating
to safe neighbourhood is far more important, yet I notice a remarkable
absence of such discussions on this list.
The identity discussion is irrational in face of the fact that you daily
do and fail to do decisions influencing your life, yet are highly
inconsistent in assigning relevance (emotion is metric for resource
assigment).
I'm equally inconsistent, yet I'm aware of the fact. I'm trying to change
my evaluation function. Speaking of which, I'm out of this thread.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:17:46 MST