From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Fri Oct 18 2002 - 11:10:17 MDT
Rafal Smigrodzki wrote:
> Samantha wrote:
>
>
>>"Known"? "Known" to whom? I can be treated very badly without
>>any proof offered that some of my associates are terrorist or
>>not and if there is any proof it is not visible to the public
>>under the current secretive arrangements, generally speaking.
>
>
> ### There you have it - "secretive". That's what makes abuse possible in the
> first place.
>
> -------
>
So how are you going to get to the place where you have
symmetric transparency? How will it be insured? I keep asking
but I don't see much in the way of answers.
>
>
>>So it is a little facile to brush the potential problems under
>>the rug with a "if you don't have anything to hide then it can't
>>hurt you" sort of response. We all have something to hide!
>>Unless you agree with the government and the current laws 100%
>>and abide by them 100% of the time (some studies have shown this
>>is actually impossible), you are a possible victim of government
>>in a society with 100% surveillance. This must be faced quite
>>squarely and factored in by anyone who calls for such
>>"transparency".
>
>
> ### Yes. We will clean the legal Augean stables.
>
How? Why should the power holders allow you to? How will you
force it or otherwise get around them, especially as they gain
keener tools to watch and block would be agents of change at
every step? I am not cynical. I am just the opposite. But
frankly I am at a loss as to how this can be done without
something equivalent to a revolution or starting a new country.
> -------
>
>>>### No, it's the human rights advocates and your own lawyer who
>>>would have a field day (provided you are innocent, of course).
>>>
>>
>>What trial do you assume I would have? Haven't you noticed the
>>current post 9/11 laws that do not grant I have any right to such?
>>
>
>
> ### With a camera you would at least have a fighting chance against your
> oppressors.
>
In practice cops confiscate cameras and slap on extra criminal
charges that are upheld by the courts. It is actually illegal
to film "public" officials acting in their "public" capacity in
many circumstances
- samantha
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