From: Charles Hixson (charleshixsn@earthlink.net)
Date: Wed Oct 16 2002 - 09:51:17 MDT
Robert J. Bradbury wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 Dehede011@aol.com wrote:
>...
>
>Ah-ha (maybe) -- on this basis the "radicals" are promoting "animosity"
>to generate a larger power base (presumably). But is the larger power
>base organized to preserve a historical world view (i.e. Muslims must
>defeat Christians or Jews), or is it organized to uplift an underclass
>(i.e. impoverished Arabic individuals)?
>
The usually valid assumption is, whatever their other goals, one of
their goals is to increase their own power. I think this could even
have been said validly of Ghandi. When people organize power, one of
the things they intend is to use that power to forward their own ends.
These ends are subject to change as their environment changes, so the
other original goals will not necessarily continue, whether laudable or
vile. There's nothing surprising about successful criminals going into
business, or successful businessmen going into crime. The label isn't
the thing. We may call a person a businessman, but that just means that
it's an easy observable. It doesn't mean that it's near the core of his
self-identity. Similarly, a politician is more likely to become radical
if he sees a good chance of that gaining him support. His espoused
goals aren't to be trusted. But if it's a route to power, he's likely
to maintain it.
N.B.: I didn't say anything about sincerity. People are really good
about being sincere. And then changing their minds when it becomes
convenient. And they really were sincere, to the best of their own
knowledge. So I don't weigh sincerity very heavily.
>It would appear (to me) that there are multiple paths for "uplifting"
>(as in improving economic conditions). Why is there a focus by people
>
Uplifting only happens when the exterior conditions make it feasible.
Social controls are the main force preventing "uplift". Of course,
these include not only local forces, but also things like the WTO. But
the knowledge of what to do to achieve ends is available. The social
mechanisms to facilitate its use are less common.
Some of these are individual (inculcated), and
Some are dispersed: Beliefs about how to be successful, Status of
people who do various things, hold various jobs, Attitude towards
corruption, theft, etc. Governmental policies towards large and small
enterprises. Etc.
And some are external, here I would rank the WTO as being on the same
level as an invading army. That's only slightly extreme. If you don't
comply with the WTO, then the invading army will be along shortly.
>...
>I'll make a side note that Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda seem to be
>dedicated to tearing things apart. That seems to me to be an...
>
It sure seems that way. I do have to continually remind myself that
almost all of my information has been filtered through the government,
and to remember the propaganda efforts of prior wars, and what relation
the truth had to the news, however.
>...
>The "real" question I may be asking here is whether the so called
>"leaders" of disenfranchised groups have a legitimate claim for
>improving their situation (i.e. they have a "plan") or whether
>they are individuals operating primarily for their own self-advantage?
>
>Robert
>
>
I don't think it works that way. Leaders often have a plan, but this is
not in distinction to their operating for their own self-advantage. You
can be practically guaranteed that they are operating for their own
self-advantage **>>as they see it, given their value system<<**. That
says nothing either good or bad about them. Knowing their value system
would help in understanding them, if you feel you need to. I'm not sure
that it would , by itself, help in predicting their actions. For that
you need a more detailed knowledge of their model of how the world
works, what their current place in the world is, and what their options
are. I don't think that I can trust government propaganda to supply
that information in any reliably useable form.
-- -- Charles Hixson Gnu software that is free, The best is yet to be.
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