From: Harvey Newstrom (mail@HarveyNewstrom.com)
Date: Fri Sep 06 2002 - 05:16:31 MDT
On Friday, September 6, 2002, at 05:24 am, Alex Ramonsky wrote:
> ...Last weekend, I introduced a friend to the ExI list (ie I let her
> read all the most recent posts over the last month or so) because she
> most definitely believes in the extropian principles but didn't know
> there were any such groups as this one. I thought she would be
> delighted to find some like-minds to talk to. She said, (I
> quote)..."This is a list about politics, mostly american politics. I'm
> interested in cryonics, longevity, calorie restriction, the possibility
> of uploading and stuff. Okay, these subjects are mentioned sometimes,
> but I couldn't wade through all that politics. It's like panning for
> gold, but there's _so much_ sand!"
> She didn't join.
I have repeatedly had the same experience. My partner dropped out after
a few days of this list. Relatives became interested at my urging and
dismissed transhumanism after reading this list. I even got a letter
from a client who claims to have lined up doctors interested in
promoting and maybe even financing ExI projects. She claims they
withdrew their support after reviewing the archives.
I have literally given up showing this list to anybody. I am receiving
pressure from business associates to drop all references to ExI from my
website because they think my association with this and their
association with me will hurt their security businesses or government
clearances. This is not a vague possibility for me. I am really
being harmed by the garbage being posted to this list. I constantly
weigh the benefits against the costs, and the costs are winning. It is
only sheer stubbornness and hope that keeps me trying to turn this list
around. But I sometimes doubt it is even possible.
On Thursday, September 5, 2002, at 11:20 pm, Robert J. Bradbury wrote:
> Though I realize it is probably already in the principles --
> though perhaps somewhat diluted -- would it not be useful
> for the ExI to publish an affirming inclusionary statement?
>
> Something that could be pointed to directly in case groups
> co-opt transhumanism/posthumanism messages as exclusionary.
The World Transhumanist Association already has a more specific
statement against racism. ExI is a organizational member of the WTA. I
believe this officially makes us covered under their statement for
transhumanism. Perhaps we can link to that statement and make it clear
that we do not tolerate racism or racialist theories in any form.
On Thursday, September 5, 2002, at 10:00 pm, Greg Burch wrote:
> I have agreed all along that Extropy Institute needs to be very clear
> that we have no association with this kind of thing and that it is
> utterly inconsistent with the Extropian Principles. There is some small
> risk that some few people might somehow come to believe that
> transhumanism in general and extropianism in particular somehow have a
> connection to the kind of terrible nonsense
I do not think this is a small risk. This is not an isolated case. I
think one would be hard-pressed to find any modern racist group that
doesn't link to transhumanist sites and try to use us to justify their
beliefs. The topic of racism comes up regularly on this list. We argue
often about whether The Bell Curve is valid or whether it is
scientifically valid to pre-judge people by racial groups in the absence
of other information. People have argued on this list that some races
are more likely to commit crimes or commit terrorism. The question of
whether we are racists is a common one. I and others on this list often
question whether many of our members are racists.
I have discussed this problem with James Hughes, and he agrees with me
that there is a concerted effort by some people to co-opt transhumanism
by racist groups. This lead the WTA to feel they had to specifically
exclude racists and publish a statement against racism. This is not a
small risk. I see this as a bigger risk than Luddites, because
opponents will use this against us. It will become a part of every
other conflict we encounter.
-- Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <www.HarveyNewstrom.com> Principal Security Consultant <www.Newstaff.com>
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