From: Jef Allbright (Groups@jefallbright.com)
Date: Tue Jun 25 2002 - 09:39:35 MDT
Colin -
There are at least three of us.
I agree with your understanding, but would de-emphasize or generalize
"human". [I see near the end you mention it's a starting point.]
At the risk of sounding too "zen", we never know the ultimate basis of
reality, but can deal only with appearances,ever changing, fully aware they
are only that, and then continue to behave as we would in any case. All the
rest is window-dressing -- interesting, worthy of discussion, but not
fundamental, and always misleading to some extent.
Paradox means seeing something from too low a level. At a higher level,
these fit together and one can pursue more subtle mysteries.
- Jef
Colin wrote:
> Colin: "I'm NOT. It's more complicated that that. I've read mountains.
Just
> about everybody makes what I feel is a fundamental mistake in attributing
> the validity of a sentience by tacitly being snobbish about the 1st person
> experience of it"
Jef: EXACTLY!
>
> DA: "What else is there to go by? 'Just about everybody'? Who are the like
> minded smart-arses as equally deluded as you anyway".
>
> Colin: "I only just found Dennett in his commentary of Searle's Chinese
room
> argument. Finally someone else gets it."
>
> DA: "Got it, you mean. Before _you_. He did The Intentional Stance way
back
> when you were pondering the experience of what it must be like to be the
> mast foot on your windersurfer. Like anyone would ever want to know
anyway"
> Colin: "This is getting in the road of progress! I'm saying that no matter
> what form - if it is indistinguishable, it is just as sentient, because
it
> must have all of the features of human cognition to be able to hide
> differences that well. This means that two sentiences with a different
> computational basis are equivalent to the level of the sentience that
agrees
> that the other is the same."
>
> Colin: "Maybe. Hiltler thought he was a humanitarian too. He burned what
he
> thought were puppets. Hell of a pin-up boy you've got there."
Jef: Excellent example. Came to mind a few days ago too, in the context of
altruism --> morality --> Hitler being true to his values.
>
> DA: "Come on. This is different."
>
> Colin: "Is it? I don't think so. Look. Run your own thought experiments.
> Normal variable biological humans, mentally handicapped biological humans,
> the chinese room, 'I'm the only real human' scenario, Chalmers' Zombie,
the
> universe as a simulation that started 5 seconds ago, The Truman Show, GULT
> (Giant Look-up table people), various forms of sequestration by 'alien'
life
> forms, God as the ultimate puppeteer. Even that episode of DS9 where the
> human lived in a village of holograms. It's only about _human_
> physical/behavioural anyway - a starting point, really."
Jef: You can add "Am I the same as my duplicate?" to this list.
> ====================================
>
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