From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Fri Jun 21 2002 - 17:53:18 MDT
Jef writes
> In my opinion it would best to appreciate the new insight about the universe
> you inhabit, ask yourself what activities give you personal satisfaction at
> this stage of your life, and then continue to pursue those interests.
Yes, but isn't this what you always do? (Perhaps that's your point!)
> To me, there's no essential difference between Lee's
> scenario and the "scenario" each of us lives in now.
Well, there is an essential difference, at least in your feelings.
If you realize that the horribly scared victim of an automobile
crash isn't really a person at all, and that *no* one had any
bad experience, then you'll feel better. By the same token, you'll
feel less moved when seeing or reading examples of sterling conduct
that normally would have been inspiring.
> What is this "altruism" that you speak of?
Flash! It turns out that it really exists! Perhaps the best
description can be found in Matt Ridley's "The Origins of Virtue".
Several other recent books, like "The Mating Game" also describe
the new anthropological findings that suggest, to illustrate one
hypothesis, that altruism originated in men when women sought to
discern genuine altruism in potential mates, so that the men would
remain and help the children along after it was no longer in the
man's best interest (either personally or genetically) to stay.
Since then, we all inherited it from those early males (at least
the ones who didn't succeed in fooling the women and really did
have to be *nice*.)
In my experiment, it turns out that there are a few---but only a
few---places where my behavior would be at all different. But
these are enough for me now to know that really I am a nice guy. :-)
Hal wrote
> First I will note is that the concept has a fundamental contradiction.
> Evidently the experimenters are so powerful, so able to simulate
> human behavior, that they can construct a whole society of puppets
> indistinguishable from human beings. But if that is so, why bother
> to leave one person conscious? And why inform him of the experiment?
People have lived with a Christian God for 2000 years about whom
such imponderables could be asked. That is *not* a fundamental
contradiction in my concept, only an unresolved mystery.
> However since then there has been a good fictional depiction of a
> very similar scenario in the movie The Truman Show... Every person
> Truman is dealing with is an actor. Every emotion they project is false.
> Even Truman's parents, his best friend, even his wife, are lying to him
> with every word they say, with every emotion they show.
> What is the appropriate way to respond in Truman's position, if you
> can't escape?
>
> In my opinion the only reasonable response on Truman's part would be rage.
> Furious, uncontrolled, violent rage. His whole life has been a lie,
> everyone he has trusted has betrayed him. He is the victim of a cruel
> cosmic joke, carried on by an omnipotent being whom he is powerless
> to influence.
Faking rage wouldn't be so easy, even if you build yourself up
with those last sentences. Sure, you'd get a little satisfaction
knowing that you were "getting to" the actors, and causing them
some pain. (I suppose.) But even in the Truman Show, if they
were faithful to the concept, you'd eventually get tired of being
treated by psychiatrists and confined to mental hospitals. Your
"rage" wouldn't last all that long.
In my scenario, you wouldn't even obtain any satisfaction. The
whole simulation would roll on regardless of your temper tantrums.
The same things would happen to you, of course *exactly* as they
would happen if you somehow got it into your head to start accusing
everyone of being unreal.
> Hopefully by taking [extreme acts], I would demonstrate to the Powers
> that experiments along such lines are useless, so that they would be
> less likely to inflict such torment on other helpless beings.
>
> That's altruism.
One's altruism fades after a rather short while. Let me hypothesize
further that after railing against "them" for a few years, you decide
to try to live a normal life, that life is still worth living anyway,
and that you might even get to upload, etc., if all goes well. (You
might even get smart enough to figure out why in tarnation "they" are
doing this to you!)
So now---after your years of therapy---you have become as well-
adjusted as you are now. Would your behavior in everyday situations
be the same as it is now? (Mine wouldn't, as I said above, but only
in small, though significant, ways.)
Lee
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