From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Thu May 30 2002 - 00:41:57 MDT
Harvey writes
> Give me a break! Quit posting false claims and then
> playing innocent later.
>From your quote of me, it was not clear what claims
I had made that upset you.
Thanks for now providing the data!
> On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 11:24 pm, Lee Corbin wrote:
> > Subject: Censorship
> You started this whole "censorship" thread.
Yes. This is because some people---not me---had begun
to cry "censorship". I exchanged an email offline with
Samantha. We agreed that censorship was the wrong
thing to accuse anyone of here, because no one's speech
had been prohibited. Perhaps you thought that the mere
name of the thread itself was a suggestion that it had
occurred! By no means.
I started this thread to (i) enable everyone to see
that no censorship had actually happened, and (ii)
to focus on how people should express disapproval at
issues being discussed, and how yet others should
express their dismay at that disapproval.
__________________________________________________
> On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 11:24 pm, Lee Corbin wrote:
> > What concerned a number of us, including me, was the
> > forcefulness of the requests---sometimes demands---that
> > certain topics be avoided, that certain persons not submit
> > an intended post.
>
> You claim that people have received demands to not
> submit a specific post.
Yes, that is correct, except that "demand" is too strong
in this case. Phil Osborn had announced his intention to
publish an essay about something, and someone else in
effect invited him not to post. I wrote him offline
and said, "don't let that stop you". Need I provide
further specifics?
__________________________________
> On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 11:24 pm, Lee Corbin wrote:
> > were a list moderator to end a thread, or to take any
> > forceful action whatsoever, we must conclude that
> > censorship has occurred.
>
> You claim that any action to end a thread by the list
> moderator must be considered "censorship".
Yes, though there is a huge difference between a list
moderator on one extreme gently suggesting that people
think twice about posting on a touchy issue, and on
the other extreme outright banning someone or some topic.
In our civilization, the word is sometimes used for both
these cases, and everything in between. As Samantha's and
my thread discussion made clear, I hope, the term should
NOT be used to apply to someone's expression of how sick
something made them, or they're saying what a bad idea it
is to talk about something. The term "censorship"---if
used at all---should be used only when, as its definition
suggests, material is expurgated, or prohibited.
For example, if the students in a high school make known
their intent to publish nude pictures in the student
newspaper, and the principal vetoes that, then the principal
has exercised censorship. Nothing wrong with that. Unlike
many, I don't think that it's always evil.
But we should NOT debate what a word should mean. As I
wrote before
"Words exist to enable communication. If any word
begins to be problematic, it is best not to use it."
I won't be using the word any further, except to respond
if someone incorrectly claims I am making or did make an
error.
__________________________________________________
> On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 11:24 pm, Lee Corbin wrote:
> > So, in conclusion, I would ask those crying "censorship!" to
> > rephrase their expressions of dismay.
>
> You claim that people are objecting to censorship occurring on this list.
Yes. Were. Some people were crying "censorship". I think
that it was wrong of them to do so. I think that one of them
already apologized for it, but I can't find his post.
__________________________________________________
>
> No one else seems to be participating in your fantasy that censorship is
> occurring. Everyone else seems to disagree with you, yet you keep
> posting and you keep quoting people out of context to imply that there
> is widespread concern over events that are not occurring.
I love your "No one" and "Everyone". How do you know?
I do not quote people out of context. Listen, can't we stop
making accusations like that against each other for a while?
And thanks, in this case, for providing references. And do
let me always know when you think I've made a false claim,
because I appreciate criticism, and the chance to set
something right if I have erred.
Lee
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