From: Harvey Newstrom (mail@HarveyNewstrom.com)
Date: Mon May 27 2002 - 07:20:38 MDT
On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 06:56 am, Reason wrote:
>> But Extropians aren't seeking a relative or subjective consensus toward
>> civilization. We seek hard provable increases in extropy
>> Our basic goals of perpetual progress and intelligent technology
>> need to be measurable and sure. Our basic goals for
>> self-transformation,
>> open society, and self-direction are for everybody, not just a chosen
>> subset.
>
> My thesis is, restated again, that you can't have an objectively correct
> consensus. The items listed above are desirable for a bunch of people
> (myself included), but cannot be *objectively* proven to be more or less
> desirable than any other set of goals,
>
> You cannot demonstrate extropy (or any other goal-oriented philosophy
> for
> that matter) to be "right," "correct," "good" or "desirable" in any
> objective way.
>
> Am I being unclear?
You are perfectly clear, but inaccurate. The Extropian Principles are
NOT an arbitrary list of desired goals reached by consensus. They are
objective realities, repeatably observed, scientifically measurable, and
statistically provable. demonstrably good. They can be objectively
defended. They are NOT a consensus document of group opinion.
- Perpetual Progress is an objective fact indicated by history.
Specific trends really are progressing faster and faster toward the
future.
- Self-Transformation is an objective result of today's technology.
Humans really are being changed and modified by technology.
- Practical Optimism is a position that is statistical more likely to be
correct than pessimism, given perpetual progress. If things are really
getting better, than we really should be optimistic and understand that
fact.
- Intelligent technology really exists and is really making a
difference. This is not a subjective valuation of technology, but an
objective measurable trend in technology.
- Open Society has been demonstrated by history to be the most effective
political framework for growth. Most of the above advances have been
developed in an open society. Competition theory, evolutionary theory,
game theory and market economics all support this system of society for
the free exchange of ideas as being the most efficient to date.
- Self-Direction has been exemplified by great thinkers throughout
history. Most advances have come from self-directed thinkers who
exceeded their environments, rather than state-controlled thinkers who
worked within the system. Like Open Society, this is a testable
theorem, and results of analysis are positive.
- Rational Thinking has been the basis of the modern technological
explosion. The scientific method produced repeatable results and can
predict future observations. Mathematics and logic have allowed
engineering design to explode exponentially. Methodical thought has
lead to the systematic search for laws of physics, physical exploration
of reality, and the development of technology. This method had beaten
out other methods of non rational thought.
None of these concepts are guesses, wishes, or desired consensus goals.
None of them are subjective or change from culture to culture. Extropy
is not just an opinion or a position. The Extropian Principles are
objective trends that actually shape objective reality. These trends
can be measured, analyzed, proven, and predicted. There is nothing
subjective or unprovable about these trends.
The Extropian Principles literally exist and are objectively
measurable. I do not see how anybody can argue that they are subjective
or unsupportable.
-- Harvey Newstrom, CISSP <www.HarveyNewstrom.com> Principal Security Consultant <www.Newstaff.com>
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