From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Sun May 19 2002 - 00:21:12 MDT
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky wrote:
> Dossy wrote:
>
>>Children and people in general must do the things they
>>are obligated to do because we're responsible for them.
>>Not because we're merely paid to do them. When my
>>daughter is old enough to take out the trash, I expect
>>her to do it because it's her duty and responsibility
>>as her part of the family, not because she's earning
>>an allowance.
>>
>
> Woohoo! Someone has *totally forgotten* their childhood! Okay, try this
> one on for size: Some faraway adults you have no influence on decide,
> without consulting you, based on rules and logic into which you have no
> input, that you have a "responsibility" and "duty" to do something. This is
I think you are missing the point. Kids, in order to grow into
reasonable citizens, need to learn that it is to be expected
that they help out where they can. There is nothing nefarious
or arbitrary in this. It is basic housebreaking. I just wish
more people I know now as supposed adults actually caught on to
the idea when young. You would think a lot of people grew up
with maids and other hired help. They certainly pretend things
just get done that they would rather not deal with.
It might also be fairly pointed out that while you are closer to
your own childhood in years than most of us are here, you don't
know anything real about parenting - about raising responsible
people from scratch.
> called "getting no respect". It is why *you* now have a job instead of
> living with your parents. You can argue with your children about the cash
Not being willing to help when you can is "giving no respect".
> value of regular meals when they turn 13. Meanwhile, pay up, because having
> "responsibilities" over which you have no control, and for which you receive
> no compensation *that you control*, may easily put your kids off the concept
> of responsibility entirely. Responsibilities and duties are something that
> you choose for yourself. Not an imposition from outside.
>
Control? What is this big control trip doing in this context?
Work needs to be done to keep the local environment going and
you could help do some of it. Why exactly should you not or why
should you be surprised if you are expected to? Not doing
these things or considering the question is truly irresponsible.
> Your children are going to see morality differently than you do. Rightly or
> wrongly, it's going to happen, so get used to it now; don't work yourself up
> into an advance frenzy of rage over the prospect. Parenthood is *not* an
> opportunity to feel good about your own morality, although it is certainly
> an opportunity to learn important new self-control skills.
>
There isn't anything in the least immoral about expecting your
kids to help out a bit when they are able. A good case for
somewhat immoral parenting could be made if you let your kids
just do whatever they like with no responsibilities for the
collective environment until they scoot off to college or
otherwise leave the nest.
- samantha
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