From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Mon May 13 2002 - 16:07:29 MDT
Samantha Atkins wrote:
>
> Mike Lorrey wrote:
>
> >
> > This is absolute rubbish. Name one 'relatively primitive' population
> > that is vegetarian exclusively. While it may be easier to do so in a
> > warmer climate, it is absolutly impossible to do in any climate with an
> > appreciable winter, and the further to the poles you go, the more
> > carnivorous cultures seem to be. An exclusively vegan diet does not give
> > a person the energy they require to perform the exhausting labor that
> > primitive cultures require to build and maintain shelter, food gathering
> > and processing, and sanitary conditions.
>
> You are mistaken. The Far East traditionally is very largely
> vegetarian. Most cultures wer not that strict about it but most
> of the diet is vegetarian with occassional fish and other meats
> in China for thousands of years.
Rice is the staple for carbs, but I don't see much in the way of legumes
going on in the Far East. Nor is 'occasional fish and other meats' a
'vegetarian' diet.
> India comes the closes to a
> full lacto-vegetarian diet among some sects of Hindus and
> Buddhists. It is certainly not impossible to be vegetarian in
> climates with cold winters (but not subzero all year long) if
> sufficient stores are kept. It does not take a lot of
> sophisitcation to do this. I did not speak of an exclusively
> vegan diet but that do is quite possible. There is no lack of
> energy or body heat from a vegetarian diet. I don't know why
> you think there is, but your information is faulty. And I am
> absolutely lost as to what you believe vegetarianism has to do
> with sanitary conditions. Veggie food is a hell of a lot more
> sanitary in its production, consumption and storage than meat.
> There are also several diseases that vegetarians can't catch as
> they are exclusive to meat eaters.
I didn't say that you couldn't get the energy for your diet from
veggies, in fact, I noted that the Frontier House Clune family put too
much emphasis on protiens and not enough on carbs, resulting in the
husband becoming malnourished.
Furthermore, you specifically ignored my statement about tropical and
semi-tropical climates being kind to vegans, since you are using
inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent to attempt to disprove my
statements.
On another note, I'll note that there are diseases which vegetarians can
catch, which exclusive meat eaters are immune to.... anemia for one,
diabetes is another.
As to sanitary storage, I'll simply note that all epidemic diseases have
originated in areas which are far more vegan than not, primarily due to
rodents and other animals which parasitize on human cereal stores.
>
> >
> > In the Frontier House show, the most glaring omission by all of the
> > families was their lack of woodcutting they had prepared. It was
> > estimated that they were on average 90% short of the firewood they'd
> > need to get through the winter. What this means is that the families
> > were all guarranteed to freeze to death in the middle of winter, no
> > matter how much food and hay they had stored up. A primitive, poorly
> > insulated shelter like the cabins in the show would require between 4-10
> > cord of wood a winter to heat, at a minimum, assuming they had a cast
> > iron stove technology. An open fire or fireplace technology would
> > require three to seven times more wood to maintain through the same
> > period.
> >
> > To cut this amount of wood requires not just immense stores of energy
> > food (carbohydrates or fats) but also proteins to maintain the muscle
> > needed to do the work.
> >
>
> Veggies are full of carbs. Some of them are 100% fat (avocado
> for instance, nuts for another are quite high in fat for their
> weight. Some veggies (legumes primarily) have *more* proteien
> than beef does. So what is your gripe?
My gripe is the claim that anybody can life off such diets. They can't.
How many Olympic athletes or bodybuilders achieve their victories on
vegan diets? Zero. In an environment which is very physically demanding,
a vegan diet doesn't provide what is needed.
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