From: jeff davis (jrd1415@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Apr 18 2002 - 13:47:08 MDT
Brian Williams writes:
>From: jeff davis <jrd1415@yahoo.com>
>In one of the darkest of possible ironies, though not
the least
>bit surprising, the israelis are gradually turning
into nazis.
You may have "Hitlered" out already....
John Clark can I get a ruling?
>The Palestinians, as long as they draw breath,
utterly refuse to
>allow the theft of their land, their dispossession
and
>humiliation, to be universally legitimized and
propagandistically
>whitewashed.
Brian: "The Israelis didn't steal it, they bought it,
and paid top dollar."
I am not well versed in the specifics of the
legalities of land ownership and transfer in Palestine
in the period 1859-1920 under the Ottoman Turks, and
then 1920-1947, under the British Mandate. I have
read however, that the Ottomans, at the end, were
deeply in debt to the Europeans, and changed their
laws in 1859 to permit the sale of land. So did the
Ottomans sell from under the Palestinians, the land
that they had lived on for generations? There are
land sales and there are land sales.
The theft I was referring to--that is, prior to the
wholesale expulsion of the Palestinians in 1947-8--was
the theft of sovereignty, the theft of political
rights, the theft of the Palestinian 'nation' (Of
course I expect in response, to hear that "the
Palestinians didn't have a 'nation'", and in the
usually accepted sense they did not. Palestine was an
outlying district of Syria, which was a suzerainty of
the Ottomans. What the Palestinians had was 1300
years of continuous occupancy, and the internationally
recognized--though routinely ignored-- political
rights that go along with that.) The Brits and the
zionists joined forces to 'make' a nation--a jewish
homeland--Israel--on land that wasn't theirs to make
such decisions about. They knew the Palestinians had
rights, but the Brits and the zionists didn't care.
Why should they? The Brits were the preeminent world
power with the military resources to do anything they
wanted to do, and the Palestinians were powerless to
do anything but complain. So the Palestinians got
screwed, right out front, in full view of the entire
world. Which is what great powers have always done.
That, Brian, is the real story. That's the Balfour
Declaration, and the British/zionist plan for
Palestine under the Bitish administration of the
League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.
Brian continues:
"The reason the Palestinians are currently
dispossessed is because they lost their land trying to
destroy Israel."
No, Brian, the reason is that the Palestinians didn't
have the military capability to prevent the zionist
colonial conquest of their land, promoted and
militarily facilitated by the British during their
League of Nations Mandate 'stewardship' of Palestine,
and buy the US thereafter.
Brian again:
"The reason they haven't regained any is because they
are still attempting to destroy Israel."
But Brian, Israel is a criminal fact, no more
legitimate than Iraq's 19th province. It's destruction
is as fully justified as the expulsion of Iraqi forces
from Kuwait.
Brian again:
"The real fact of the matter is that the other Arab
countries ordered them to leave so they could attack
Israel."
So you're saying that the neighboring countries formed
a coalition to defend against a foreign aggression.
"They were told any Arabs found living there would be
considered traitors. They also promised that they
could keep the Israelis property after they
were destroyed. Didn't work out that way..."
More Brian:
"I also note you failed to mention that 820,000 Jews
were kicked out of their homes in surrounding Arab
countries and their property confiscated."
A simple question: did this happen before or AFTER the
zionists fucked the Palestinians? Lay the blame for
this where it belongs, ON THOSE WHO STARTED IT. After
the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, Japanese-Americans
were looked upon with extreme suspicion. Interned
even. Imagine how much worse it could have been had
the Japanese carved out a chunk of California and
called it the Sushi Prefecture.
Brian advises:
Throttle back on the rhetoric.
I advise: you need to examine your propaganda-bloated
worldview and learn to distinguish fact from jingoism.
PS I checked into www.camera.org ;
israel-is-always-right-the-arabs-are-always-wrong
political correctness thought police; but skillfully
done. I wonder where they get their funding.
>"The Rules" of war are "there are no rules". It is
anecdotal that
>the British said, "Oh those dishonorable colonial
terrorists (ie
>Americans-to-be), they hide behind trees and wear
clothing that
>makes it hard for them to be seen clearly. They don't
fight by
>the rules." Get a clue. It's utterly ridiculous to
think that
>the west or the us or the israelis can make "the
rules" for the
>Palestinians. If you want them to fight by the rules,
give them
>tanks and planes and nuclear weapons, I'm sure
they'll use them to
>fight with. In the meantime, the war will go on, with
the
>Palestinians fighting however they can until they say
it is
>over,...or until they are dead to the last fertile
female. This
>last, the "final solution", is where the israelis
will have to go,
>so long as they refuse to admit to the world that the
creation of
>the state of Israel, (check the FACTS out for
yourself, start with
>the creation of the Balfour Declaration) fait
accompli though it
>may be, is nevertheless a geopolitical crime.
Brian:
"Nonsense."
When you have little experience or interest in the
truth--preferring the hearty flavor of to-your-taste
jingoism--the truth must surely seem like nonsense.
Brian with more:
"I just finished a history of the conflict and the
reasons behind it are nothing like the propaganda you
are trying to disseminate."
I'm pleased that you are trying to improve yourself.
If you'll provide a title and author I'll take a look
to assess its credibility. Up till now, you seem
inclined toward poor choice of brain feed. To assist
you, and others, here is a link to
Recommendations of the King-Crane
Commission On Syria and Palestine
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/crane.html
But allow me to cut and paste a particularly relevant
chunk:
(3) The Commission recognized also that definite
encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the
Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement, in its
approval by other representatives of the Allies. If,
however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are
adhered to-favoring "the establishment in Palestine of
a national home for the Jewish people, it being
clearly understood that nothing shall be done which
may prejudice the civil and religious rights of
existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"—it can
hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist Program
must be greatly modified. For a "national home for the
Jewish people" is not equivalent to making Palestine
into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a
Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest
trespass upon the "civil and religious rights of
existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." The
fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's
conference with Jewish representatives, that the
Zionists looked forward to a practically complete
dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of
Palestine, by various forms of purchase.
In his address of July 4, 1918, President Wilson laid
down the following principle as one of the four great
"ends for which the associated peoples of the world
were fighting": "The settlement of every question,
whether of territory, of sovereignty, of economic
arrangement or of political relationship upon the
basis of the free acceptance of that settlement by the
people immediately concerned, and not upon the basis
of the material interest or advantage of any other
nation or people which may desire a different
settlement for the sake of its own exterior influence
or mastery." If that principle is to rule, and so the
wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as
to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be
remembered that the non-Jewish population of
Palestine-nearly nine-tenths of the whole-are
emphatically against the entire Zionist program. The
tables show that there was no one thing upon which the
population of Palestine was more agreed than upon
this. To subject a people so minded to unlimited
Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social
pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross
violation of the principle just quoted, and of the
peoples' rights, though it kept within the forms of
law.
It is to be noted also that the feeling against the
Zionist program is not confined to Palestine, but
shared very generally by the people throughout Syria,
as our conferences clearly showed. More than 72 per
cent--1350 in all--of all the petitions in the whole
of Syria were directed against the Zionist program.
Only two requests-those for a united Syria and for
independence-had a larger support. This general
feeling was only voiced by the "General Syrian
Congress," in the seventh, eighth and tenth
resolutions of their statement [paras. 7, 8, 10, Doc.
251....
The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the
fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and
Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No
British officer, consulted by the Commissioners,
believed that the Zionist program could be carried out
except by force of arms. The officers generally
thought a force of not less than fifty thousand
soldiers would be required even to initiate the
program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense
of the injustice of the Zionist program, on the part
of the non-Jewish populations of Palestine and Syria.
Decisions, requiring armies to carry out, are
sometimes necessary, but they are surely not
gratuitously to be taken in the interests of a serious
injustice. For the initial claim, often submitted by
Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to
Palestine, based on an occupation of two thousand
years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.
---------------end of excerpt----------
By the way, despite my name, I am one hundred percent
Ashkenaz Jew and proud of it. The blood of Abraham
surges in my veins. My opposition to the state of
israel is based on the unjust way it came into being,
the ongoing lie being promulgated to cover the current
and historic facts, and the savage toxic horror that
is the consequence. Not anti-semetism.
Whatever constitutes an extropic approach to this
problem, I would suggest that it begins with telling
the truth. Finding the truth appears, however, to be
a non-trivial undertaking.
I'm reminded of the words of Mark Twain: "Always tell
the truth. You'll please some people, and astonish
the rest."
Best, Jeff Davis
"During times of universal deceit, telling the
truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
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