From: Richard Steven Hack (richardhack@pcmagic.net)
Date: Sat Mar 09 2002 - 12:29:15 MST
At 01:05 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Actually, it is an absolute, since scientific progress shows no sign of
>exceeding it outside of using loopholes like wormholes, etc. Experiments
>in FTL all demonstrate that wavefront speeds are always restrained to
>light speed.
Note your statement above - "outside of using loopholes" - my point
exactly... And I repeat, that "scientific progress shows no sign of
exceeding it" does not make it an absolute. We merely have evidence that
it MAY be an absolute. This is elementary philosophy of
science. Scientists do not claim absolutes - only theories that get better
as time goes on. In practice, we may regard and act as if what we believe
to know is true, but in precision we cannot claim this as an
absolute. Perhaps a Transhuman with sufficient direct knowledge of the
universe can do so, but we cannot.
> >
> > > > "rat race" only makes sense if there is no way to better the
> > > > fundamentals of your condition beyond that of rats or of much more
> > >
> > >Last time I looked no one has found a way to strip Darwin in context of
> > >self replication.
> >
> > A Transhuman has no need to replicate. Now, it is possible that it may
> > turn out that replication is a good move for some other reason, but
> > replication is not identity (barring some tech that enables it to be
> > identity), therefore replication offers no survival advantage to an entity
> > bounded by space-time.
>
>A transhuman may indeed have a need to replicate in order to increase
>its rate of experience. Producing 1000 copies of oneself increases the
>rate of experience a thousand fold. Merging the experience back into one
>individual allows a transhuman to gain far more experience while
>minimizing the risk. Brin's new book on Dittos delves into the negative
>aspects of this, though I believe Sheffield wrote a very interesting
>novel on the positives.
Ah. that is an interesting concept. However, if a Transhuman can utilize
telepresence or other technologies to increase his rate of "experience",
why would he create potentially competitive replicants of himself (note
here that I assume for the sake of argument the notion some others seem to
believe that such replicants would in fact be competitive). Also, could
the Transhuman not replicate himself with agents that can provide him with
the experience, but not the competition or the resource consumption?
The argument assumes that the only way to gain the necessary knowledge of
the universe is to directly experience it, which in turn will require
essentially consuming a significant portion of the universe to produce
enough sources of experience. This all sounds very unlikely to me, and it
definitely involves a great deal of assumption on the nature of and
technology available to a posthuman. If we're that good, we should be
Transhuman already. I am not denying that it may well be that all these
assumptions are true - I am saying that I do not know, and it is ridiculous
for others to act as if they do. When I claim that a Transhuman need not
replicate, I am referring to the logical conclusion that once a posthuman
has sufficient resources to insure his survival, he has no need to
replicate. Also I emphasize that given the nature of space-time (as we
currently understand it), replication does not change the original state of
the original being and therefore is not a means to immortality. Now, if it
can be demonstrated that the nature of the universe (as we understand it)
is such that to in fact insure its survival, the Transhuman must in fact
replicate, then I will reconsider the argument. Can someone point me to
such a logical demonstration on the Web or elsewhere?
> >
> > > > in-your-face scarcity. It pays not to mistake current context for laws
> > > > of reality.
> > >
> > >Please show me a mechanism by which you're supposed to get out of
> > >darwinian evolution sustainably. Proposing Eden without a mechanism how to
> > >get there and to stay there is not scientific.
> >
> > As I say above, replication is not the issue. It is not clear that
> > Transhumans need be competitive - that is *human* thinking (and low-grade
> > human thinking at that).
>
>The idea that human thinking is low grade is an artifact of primitive
>religious superstition and statist disinformation. It is human thinking
>that has gotten us as far as we have, so it obviously must be pretty
>damn good.
I did not say all human thinking was low-grade. What I said was that the
statement made was "human" thinking AND that the statement made was
"low-grade" human thinking. And of course one can divide human thinking
into the good stuff and the bad stuff - both of which have put us where we
are now. Which one will prevail is the subject of discussion.
Next!
Richard Steven Hack
richardhack@pcmagic.net
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