From: Richard Steven Hack (richardhack@pcmagic.net)
Date: Sat Mar 09 2002 - 11:02:48 MST
At 04:56 AM 3/9/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Perhaps you could fill that football statement if it really sank in that
>we could live in a world of great abundance where every person on the
>planet had primo health, food, clothing, shelter and more educational,
>computational and entertainment resources than they can imagine for the
>asking. Or we can once a few more technological steps are taken and once
>we get over insisting on scarcity, creating the effects of scarcity, just
>because it is so familar and taken for granted that we can't really grok a
>world significantly without it. In the treasure room of the gods we argue
>and act as if we were in a firesale at a Walmarts.
I want to quote something from a comic book. (Hang in there!) The
background to this is as follows:
Around 1992 or 1993, Marvel Comics started a new line of comics set in a
very dystopian future in the year 2099. The worldview was that
corporations ran everything, there was a lot of tech, but most people were
screwed up, and there was an even larger gap between the haves and
have-nots than exists today. Marvel reintroduced some of their main
characters from the 20th Century such as Spiderman, the Punisher, the
X-Men, etc., with different "people" (i.e., it was someone from the 2099
era being Spiderman, not "Peter Parker"). The one exception to this was the
villain Doctor Doom, a character that Marvel has developed now for some 40
years, and who is the premiere villain in their comics lineup. Doom
travelled through time to arrive in the year 2099, and, a man out of his
time, set out to change the world. Most of the characters in the 2099
series were fighting evil corporate powers, etc. Doom, as ruler of his own
little Eastern European country, "Latveria", quickly came into conflict
with the world as it was. At one point, he decides that he is the only one
that can save America from itself and does so by invading it (with the help
of mutants, hackers (called "netgliders" in the series) and mercenaries),
blowing up the Senate, invading the White House and "re-empowering the
Presidency" as he put it, in opposition to the corporate powers. He
nationalizes the transnational corps in America, but they band together and
overthrow him using technology which they have hidden from the public
because it would threaten their rule and profits if the technology were
revealed. Doom is forced to go into hiding and eventually strikes back.
Now, this is the first mainstream comic I have ever seen where the
characters quote Noam Chomsky and Bakunin... At one point, before the
invasion of America, when America uses "necrotoxins" to annihilate an
entire small nation neighboring Doom's, where he has fomented an
anti-corporate revolution, Doom says the following:
"I am reminded of a sentence by a philosopher of my original time. His
name was Noam Chomsky, and the simplicity and power of his statement has
forever after haunted me: "U.S. foreign policy is, in fact, based on the
principle that human rights are irrelevant."
Later, he says: "The greatest threat to this world is America."
After his takes over the White House, it is revealed that one of the CEOs
of the corporations is actually an alien. He kills the alien, and then goes
on national television to say the following:
"He - it - has controlled one of this country's largest corporations for
over a decade. Do you understand? Your lives have been given to a THING
with hallucinogens for blood! But this doesn't absolve you! No! I won't
allow you to point your finger at the alien corpse and say: 'It was him
that did it! America today is not my fault!' You LET him rule you! It IS
your fault! You ALL HAD A CHOICE! You will ALL make restitution for this
horror you have perpetrated! Your incomes will be tithed to a Federal
Restitution Fund in reparation for your IGNORANCE! Martial law is
increased! More curfews! TO THE DEVIL WITH YOU ALL!'
After he is overthrown, Doom ponders why he has failed to change the world:
"Eventually he was forced to recognize the single terrible thing that has
brought low all conquerors. He couldn't see everything at once. He
couldn't repair the environment, tend to the ruined fabric of American
society, rebuild the structure of human resources and see every other
detail of the country. And so corporate secrets remained secrets for just a
day too long. It is still galling to the man. He knew he could dissuade
America from making a hell of earth if he offered them HEAVEN.
It all depends on your perception. Doom has come to the conclusion that
attempting to see and control every detail of one country may not have been
the most effective way to save this planet from itself. However, he can
view a small selection of pertinent details on a planetary basis...and by
manipulation of information, can affect small, choice aspects of world
culture.He need only follow the ripples and repercussions of ONE act. Or,
put another way, what if Doom were to take over the world?..."
Now comes the section that struck me as relevant to this
discussion. Although if you study the above statements, many of them are
relevant to this discussion as well.
"Doom has a theory about nanotechnology. Its very existence is an anomaly
on this world - or its lack of exploitation is an anomaly. A world of
nanotech should be a world without hunger, without illness, without want,
and perhaps even without GOVERNMENT. Nanotech is the horn of plenty, and
yet, in 2099, its use is restricted to the occasional construction work or
computer augmentation. When a smear of nanotech could build food from
dirt, why do people starve in the slums of America? Simple. The corporate
mentality that governs much of the earth would stand to make no profit from
paradise. The people have not been told of the potential of
nanotechnology. We could have made the stars jealous of our magic, thinks
Doom. We could have soared through life on a sparkling wave of tiny
miracles. Instead, we are pressed into the gutter by money and fear."
"Doom shall, in increments, bring paradise to the earth. He finds the
concept charmingly double-edged - it is a gift to his protectorate, the
people, and a sword in the guts of his enemies. He will begin introducing
nanotech into small countries. At first, the Americans will likely hide
the news of their tiny neighbors making food and medicine from waste and
slurry... But when their cities become wired gardens, when their cornucopia
homes derive their power from buds and their vehicles run on air - what
then? The myriad gardens of Eden will become weapons pointed at the
American way."
"Doom has always thought LARGE thoughts. This alone is enough to
distinguish him from his late 21st Century peers, as well as his 20th
Century opponents. The tiny European state of Latveria from which he
sprang may well have been ruled with Doom's IRON hand well visible - but it
was also ruled with deep love and boundless ingenuity. He was the greatest
mind of the 1900's and is the secret genius of the 2000's. The planet will
never see his like again and will be poorer for it."
"He is Doom and he will make this world anew. They will hate him for it, he
knows. For they have never understood why Doom does what he does. And so,
he turns and whispers his explanation to the new morning. "I LOVE YOU.
Don't you know that after all these years?"
"'A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never
overcome them.' - Carl Jung, 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections'". [Quoted on
the page.]
Now, keep in mind that all this was written for the March, 1996 issue. And
the use of nanotech in the story line goes back to the first issue in
January 1993. This was an amazingly prophetic comic book!
>To me this biggest difficulty is envisioning and communicating a very
>fundamentally different future that goes far beyond hyper-technology by itself.
My point exactly - it is an insurmountable difficulty given human
nature. But you are right - the point of Transhumanism is survival - not
technology per se. I would become Transhuman by alchemy or occult magic or
Taoist meditation if I though that would really work.
>>>I don't see it as a misallocation of resources to *promote*
>>>Transhumanism, as long as we realize that the purpose is to attract
>>>those who *can* understand and who *can* contribute. But trying to
>>>convince the world that Transhumanism is the future will merely relegate
>>>us to cult status or worse, wake the states of the world up to the
>>>threat to their existence and bring down even more oppression.
>
>
>Without a suitably widespread radical revisioning of the possibilities I
>am quite pessimistic on humanity surviving.
Ah, yes, but it is possible that Transhumans will survive regardless. But
only if we entertain that possibility.
> We literally will fail to understand how to use our superior technology
> to actually change and/or meet what most harms and threatens us. Unless
> we create the uploads or AIs or SI that take over everyting (not
> necessarily a good idea) then we need to convince enough people to
> actually create a viable fundamentally different society or societies.
How about using the tech that goes into AIs or SIs to change US to handle
the situation. That is the point of Transhumanism - not to create another
species to displace us - but to transform US INTO that other species. We
"displace" ourselves, as it were. People seem to be obsessed with the human
fear of ANOTHER species being superior to us. This is clearly a flight
response right in line with my earlier comments. The point of
Transhumanism is for US - i.e., those of use that choose to do so - to
become that species.
> At the door to being able to change ourselves very fundamentally on a
> physical level we must also be free to change our fundamental assumptions
> of how human institutions work and how we work. Anything less is simply
> hypercharging mindsets grossly out of their proper context.
Correct. Now apply that insight correctly.
>Or we must defang governments from standing in the way. One way is to
>promise significantly better circuses (to be somewhat crass) than ever
>before and at ultra-low cost and deliver. Sell a workable beuatiful
>vision and you will not have trouble getting enough votes (assuming we
>can't fix it so such things are not subject to an open vote) to defeat
>anti-technology and anti-future legislation. But present it as mainly an
>ideological position and not much else and Transhumanism is DOA culturally.
Correct. The problem is selling the vision. How much work will that be
versus devoting the same resources to achieving that vision. Can we not
produce the reality instead of merely a vision? Visions can be debated and
rejected on emotional grounds - reality has its own force.
>>Ignoring the beliefs of others is not going to get us there.
>
>
>Presenting better, more compelling, more hopeful and deliverable beliefs
>will though. At the least we cannot act as if it is legitimate to keep
>humankind in relative misery when the means exist to end large parts of
>that misery. We can take the moral high ground.
Yes. Whether that will work is the question.
>>>We need to spread our memes to those who *can* understand and who
>>>*can* develop what we need. And if necessary we need to find ways to
>>>get the others to develop what we need - by whatever appeals (to greed,
>>>or whatever) work.
>
>
>I agree with some of what you say but it is a partial starting point
>within a current context. By itself it will not shift the context
>significantly.
Yes, but what they develop will shift that context.
>Many professions and business are scared because the technology and
>changes can easily make their business and business model bankrupt and
>meaningless. Which is one of the reason fundamental abundance needs to be
>created before many people will let go of inferior modes of "making a
>living" rather than living fully.
See Doom's attitude above.
>>There are some people who agree with transhumanism in positions where they
>>can develop useful stuff, and a few who have money. But honestly they are
>>not that many - friendly billionaries do not grow on trees.
My point here, Anders, would be that we can become the "friendly
billionaires" ourselves by developing the tech. Why have a mindset that
says you can only do research if someone GIVES you money?
>> Even if certain
>>cool technologies would be developed in this isolated way, they would be
>>extremely costly if the costs were not spread out across a big paying
>>customer base. This is of course where appeals to greed come in - there are
>>many ideas we like that could presumably be killer applications (just think
>>of life extension).
Correct, Anders.
>Sure. So have the "movement" seed the projects and apps and funnel a part
>of the profits back into the "movement".
Correct, Samantha.
>I disagree in part. Technology is not a subset of culture. Its use and
>limitations are shaped by culture. These are not the same thing. Most of
>these symbols, rewards, images and so on are rife with cultural
>assumptions that are part of the problem (some less so than others). For
>me the aims of software are primarily the transformation of culture and
>the transcendence of human limitations.
Correct.
>>>And the whole thing will be tossed out the minute it conflicts with
>>>their other basic human drives, such as the fear of death.
>
>What if you show them they need not fear death because it can be postponed
>indefintely? What then? Will you not then turn this drive in your favor?
>
>- samantha
I would hope so. I would say that is the ONLY likely approach that COULD
work to changing society to some degree. We have to fight not only death,
but people's acceptance of death as inevitable (and even desirable - the
old saw about "I wouldn't want to live forever because life is hell
now.") But I am not convinced that we can do that on a *society-wide*
scale UNTIL we can demonstrate that it will actually work. But we *can* do
it on a one-to-one basis with people open to such ideas. (The old "Cast no
pearls before swine" notion...)
Richard Steven Hack
richardhack@pcmagic.net
--- Outgoing e-mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 - Release Date: 3/6/02
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Nov 02 2002 - 09:12:53 MST