From: Colin Hales (colin@versalog.com.au)
Date: Sun Mar 03 2002 - 00:49:40 MST
Andrew Clough wote...........
> Until now I've been using (Ve / Vim / Ver / Verself) to represent people
of
> unknown gender/no gender. However, there seem to be quite a few other
> standards, some of which might be more common. (Sie / hir / hirs /
> hirself) seems to be relatively common, but Sie = she in German so (Zie /
> Zir / Zirs / Zirself) also seems to be used. Is Ve the (semi?) official
> extropy mailing list gender neutral pronoun?
> *Information from Gender Neutral Pronoun FAQ
> http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/faq.html
I have never really found myself unable to de-gender text involving humans -
there usually seems to be a way out. It's only in business dealings that I
have ever found it an issue (employment manuals, personnel matters etc)
Applied to humans, genderless pronouns seem to accentuate and/or confuse the
issue, not defuse it. To me anyway.
It was only when describing a non-fiction genderless non-human that I felt a
growing unease and an inability to choose pronouns. A personal relationship
needs personal pronouns. It was a relief when I found Eliezer's
http://www.singinst.org/ discussion that I found something to use. At first
it was really awkward. Now it's starting to feel OK. This I find quite
amazing - my brain is 'shoehorning' new pronouns alongside deeply embedded
prep-school written grammar models.
With "The White Abacus", now queued up/gottaread, I have another set to try:
se,sem,semself,ser,(sems?). Damien, have you ever read it out loud to
anyone? If so, how was it? What are the phonetics in your mind? How Zish is
the S, How Aish is is the E?
I tried
"Yesterday ve learned X but when I asked ver today ve did not know"
"Yesterday se learned X but when I asked ser today se did not know"
at home. My son liked S and my wife likes V. I think the S version falls off
my tongue better but the V looks better written, somehow. Ill try the S
version for a while and see how it feels (for AI). Is there an Extropian
standard? I have a practical need for one, extropian or otherwise. I wish it
were so. Panelbeating the heart of the English language was not in the game
plan. I have a lot of words to write and speak - someone tell me which!
Colin Hales
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