From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Sun Dec 23 2001 - 13:34:37 MST
Olga Bourlin wrote:
>
> From: "Max More" <max@maxmore.com>
> > At 06:25 PM 12/22/01, you wrote:
> > >From: "Mike Lorrey" <mlorrey@datamann.com>
> ...while local employers prefer to outsource the sort of work I do
> > > > to Indian job shops...
> > >
> > >But racist jibes are old. This is a free country, and I'm 110% behind
> > >people using free speech to express themselves. But racist jibes are
> old.
> >
> > Olga, where is the racist jibe? I don't see one. ... He didn't even
> *complain*
> > about the situation. He simply gave his view of why he lost his job,
> fairly
> > plausibly.
>
> I took the very fact that Mike posted what he did into consideration. In
> the past he has referred to various cultures in South America and Mexico as
> kleptocracies,
Do you dispute that latin american governments are some of the most
corrupt in the world, who skim aid funds directed at their country into
their personal use, in spite of all the evidence?
> and if I remember correctly - was one of the people who saw
> nothing racist in that lovely article that someone posted by Fred Reed. But
> (please oh please oh please) we don't need to rehash the Reed screed.
I did not dispute many of the facts he stated, but did dispute some of
his conclusions and logic (just as I dispute your logic). If Reed said
the sky was blue and I agreed, would that make me a racist?
>
> It may in fact be Mike's opinion that he is being displaced by "Indian job
> shops." I'm not exactly sure what that is, and I am assuming he didn't mean
> "Indians" from a particular Indus Valley civilization, but our own native
> kind, yes?
No. Indian as in India.
>
> If Mike had said: "...while local employers prefer to outsource the sort of
> work I do to Jews ..." would that that have been racist? I think so. Of if
> he had said "...while local employers prefer to outsource the sort of work I
> do to blacks..." would that have been racist? I think so.
If I had said "while local employers prefer to outsource the sort of
work I do to Israeli based firms..." would you consider that racist or
merely a statement of fact? I made absolutely no qualitative remarks
about Indian job shops, whether they are superior or inferior.
>
> In my own locality of King County, Washington, voters defeated an
> Affirmative Action bill not too long ago. Do I think that was racist? Yes.
> While some people think Affirmative Action itself is "racist" (even though
> the group of people who've benefited the most from Affirmative Action in the
> past, I believe, have been "white" women) I think it balances things out
> better (and much faster) than if humans were left to root out for the milk
> of human kindness on their own.
So you say that you support affirmative action, despite the fact that
the people who have benefitted the most, women, are actually the
majority of the population, to the detriment of the male minority? Isn't
that rather bigoted of you?
>
> While Mike may not have been complaining directly, it seemed as if he were
> playing a kind of "blame game" with racist overtones, at the very least.
I think you are reading my posts with excrement-colored glasses.
>
> > He simply gave his view of why he lost his job, fairly
> > plausibly.
>
> And I've simply given my view of how what Mike said came across to me. I
> have nothing against Mike personally.
Obviously not, obviously. While I don't care how you think of me, it
does bother me that a person such as yourself could make such
unsubstantiated leaps of illogic, prejudice, and admit to her own bias
for the majority against the minority, yet somehow be offended when you
conclude, more due to your own prejudices than anything I actually
wrote, that I am somehow racist. That such people continue to populate a
list allegedly devoted to rationality and logic speaks volumes for the
degree of verbal strife that continues here.
I also find it rather disengenuous that you a) consider me a racist,
despite a lack of my actually demonstrating same, and b) are not
personally offended by such a conclusion. If you so readily jump to such
a conclusion on a total lack of real evidence, it is obvious that you
are looking for something to be offended by. The least you can do is
admit it.
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