From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Sun Nov 25 2001 - 10:48:02 MST
Charlie Stross wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 07:56:25AM -0800, Brian D Williams wrote:
> > I am well aware that we backed regimes that from a retrospective
> > were bad for their peoples, I was in the Philipines during the
> > reign of Ferdinand Marcos, and a good friend in high school after
> > winning a science fair was a guest of the Shah of Iran, but you
> > completely ignore why.
> >
> > We were involved in a cold war with the former Soviets, Democracy
> > vs Totalitarianism for the fate of the world. Since we could not be
> > everywhere at the same time we had little choice but to back anyone
> > who opposed the Soviets, in most countries they were the only
> > choice.
>
> Which is why the CIA organised a coup in 1953 that ousted a
> democratically elected prime minister (in Iran) and installed
> an hereditary dictatorship, huh? (Clue: the previous Iranian
> government was not a Soviet proxy.)
Sez who? The same people who said that Allende was not a socialist and
the Rosenbergs and Alger Hiss were innocent?
>
> It had a hell of a lot more to do with cheap oil, and taking
> over the former British and French spheres of interest in the
> middle east (acquired during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire
> in the 1918-1930 period) than with anything as long-term and
> enlightened as combating communism.
Oh, sure, despite the fact that every fledgling democracy that ever
bordered the USSR or communist China quickly became subverted by
communist forces.
>
> _That_ particular pigeon came home to roost with a vengeance
> in 1979 (although the signs suggest that Iran is settling
> down again).
Actually, as I have illustrated previously, the anti-US feeling among
the common people in Iran had far more to do with predatory policies of
dumping US grain (subsidized, of course, by farm bills written by dems)
disguised as 'humanitarian aid' on the Iranian market which drove the
local farm industry into the tank.
The rantings of some religious nuts would have found no purchase if the
common Persian-on-the-street wasn't out of work due to US 'humanitarian
aid'. Note also that the Ayatollahs did not return to Iran till at least
6 months after the Shah was booted. The Iranian revolution ran much like
the Soviet one: a moderate menshevik revolution and broad based
democratic government overtaken by adherents to a radical
theology/ideology who brooked no dissent.
>
> > These things have to be considered in their historical context.
>
> Absolutely! And the sad fact is, history as taught in the US appears
> to be about as accurate as the history taught in Japanese or German or
> Russian schools, or preached in mosques ... i.e., not very.
As opposed to what? The British?
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