From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Thu Sep 27 2001 - 03:02:21 MDT
Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@datamann.com> writes:
> Mike Linksvayer wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 15, 2001 at 09:55:56AM -0700, Robert J. Bradbury wrote:
> > > > "For over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of
> > > > Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian peninsula, plundering its riches,
> > > > dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbours,
> > > > and turning its bases in the peninsula into a spearhead through which to
> > > > fight the neighbouring Muslim peoples . . . ."
> > >
> > > > Bin Laden called upon Muslims to fight against the United States and its
> > > > people "in accordance with the words of Almighty God." (19)
> > >
> > > So, for people on the list who would argue moderation, one has to
> > > recognize that "war" has been declared on us.
> >
> > For those who would argue immoderation, one has to recognize _why_
> > "war" has been declared on us.
>
> Blah blah. By the same logic, we should have been moderate with Japan,
> since they claimed they were only 'defending' themselves against the
> trade embargo we had imposed on them prior to Dec 7th, and we should
> have been 'moderate' with the Nazis, since they claimed that they were
> only regaining territory that had been taken from them unjustly in the
> Versailles treaty, and were, according to them, dealing with 'criminal'
> elements (jews and communists) that had contributed to Germany's defeat.
>
> See what happens to open minded people? Their brains fall out.
>
See what happens to close minded people? They draw highly inaccurate
parallels and get somewhat insulting of those who think differently. It
obviously is quite important to recognize what it is that we do that
provokes terrorists activities and a great deal of hate toward this
country. Some of it is for our virtues, true enough. But more than
a little is also for our faults, especially faults of policy and of
action.
> Just because someone showers you with their counterclaims that they say
> justifies their hatred of us doesn't mean you have to listen to them, or
> that they are in any way right. No nation is innocent. You can always
> come up with a laundry list of offenses that one nation has committed
> against another to justify any action you wish to take.
If we cannot admit where there are valid claims against us and
act to correct such things where possible then we are irresponsible
and dishonest as a nation and as individual citizens of that nation.
And no, I don't think you can justify anything and everything according
to the wrongs. I also don't think you can afford a policy of acting
as if it doesn't matter because there is some bad in all nations, if
that is what you believe.
I personally find it quite disturbing when Bush said that other
countries are either with us and by implicaiton with our policies in
our "war on terrorism" or are with the terrorists. That is a very
dangerous and blatantly false dichotomy. One can be very much
against terrorism and still not believe the planned and proposed
actions are reasonable and not back them. The same is true of
nations. Just because we have been hurt badly is not an excuse for
polarizing the world into "for US" and "against US".
- samantha
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