From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Fri Sep 14 2001 - 11:43:11 MDT
Miriam English wrote:
>
> At 11:33 AM 14/09/2001 +0200, Anders Sandberg wrote:
> >On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 03:12:55PM +1000, Damien Broderick wrote:
> > > At 09:20 PM 12/09/2001 -0400, Jerry Mitchell wrote:
> > > >and a culture based on
> > > >reason.
> > >
> > > If only. Nobody I saw held high a copy of Karl Popper or John Stuart Mill.
> > > What I've watched sprayed across the media has been ceaseless, inanely
> > > desperate, desperately inane god-invoking, my true God can beat up your
> > > false God, all the old medieval bullshit. So sad.
> >
> >Indeed. Much is of course simply due to the emotional distress, which
> >causes a high level of arousal and hence inhibits creative thinking in
> >favor of well-rehearsed quick actions - i.e. blasting somebody rather
> >than taking the time to do a serious, scrupulously fair trial.
> >
> >Personally I see my role right now as scurrying around trying to protect
> >the open society from its members: they can do far more damage than the
> >terrorists ever did in the current culture of hate/fear. Right now a lot
> >of very dangerous decisions that will have long term effects will be
> >made, for example in encryption law.
> >
> >More people really should read Popper and Machiavelli. And we really
> >need to debug the fight or flight response.
>
> Ain't that the truth!
No, it's not. You need to really understand that a switch has been
flipped here, but its not permanent. Our country, at least, is
structured to function this way in event of war, and it is structured to
be flipped back once war has been won. When attacked, our congress is
supposed to empower the president to act as a temporary limited dictator
for the duration of conflict, whose authority devolves back to congress
and the people at the conclusion of that conflict.
It is true that this has been strained by WWII and the 50 years of Cold
War following it (and the past decade of terrorism following the Cold
War), but it can be said that this is the result when a nation refuses
to proceed to a fully conclusive victory. This is generally because we
dislike conflict, we dislike dictating to others, and our Presidents,
contrary to opposition propaganda, generally dislike weilding such
excessive executive power as much as Cincinnatus did 2300+ years ago.
We have repeatedly, throughout the 20th century, refused to take
complete victory in War in so many ways. We've permitted tyrants,
totalitarian regiemes, and piratical organizations to continue to exist,
refusing to call up the intestinal fortitude to see things to their
proper conclusion, to demand the establishment of proper peaceful
societies in so many places. I shall note that nations like Germany and
Japan, who we committed to defeat utterly, are now among the most
peaceful and democratic nations on earth. This is the goal we should
pursue in every conflict.
It is our refusal to commit totally to make the world truly 'safe for
democracy' that has resulted in the present state of things.
After defeat of Germany and Japan, we refused Patton's recommendation to
go on against Stalin, and later we held back against MacArthur's wish to
strike Communist China in the Korean War. In the Gulf War, we held back
against continuing on to Bagdad to depose Hussein's government and clean
Iraq out of all WOMD technologies. Just last year, Clinton held back
against nailing bin Laden when provided with concrete information as to
the whereabouts of him and his associates.
We must demand that nations end their support of such covert activities,
disregarding the laws of war that prohibit actions against civilians,
that combatants must wear distinguishing uniforms and belong to
recognisable command structures. Societies which refuse to act according
to the laws of war must be pounded until they cry uncle and acquiesce to
our just demands, must accept restructuring of their societies into open
democratic nations, where educational systems cannot program their
students with hate, with glory for martyrdom. Everyone must be taught
true history, not propaganda.
Just as the Holocaust cannot be denied, the criminal acts of terrorists
can no longer be glorified, rationalized, excused, worshipped,
respected, or condoned. Societies which refuse to do so must be shut off
from the world, and if need be, pounded to dust.
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