From: Mike Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Fri Aug 31 2001 - 10:40:24 MDT
Brian D Williams wrote:
>
> >From: "Mitchell, Jerry (3337)" <Jerry.Mitchell@esavio.com>
>
> >My point here is why doesnt everyone get the legislated minimum?
> >I make more then minimum wage and theres a reason. Supply and
> >demand dictate this stuff, not government OR buisnesses OR unions.
>
> My point was that before Unions came along everybody DID make the
> minimum, and it was a much smaller minimum.
No, not everybody made the minimum. The unskilled made the minimum.
Those with skills were sought after, and the unskilled only made the
minimum in areas where immigration had created labor surpluses. In most
of the country in the 19th century, for instance, there was a labor
shortage. Only in areas like Chicago and New York and other industrial
centers like Pittsburg, etc with high immigrant populations was there
such a labor surplus that a person could not live on an unskilled wage.
This was exacerbated by the lack of transportation. Unless you lived
within walking distance of your place of employment, you needed to make
enough extra to pay for rail transportation to and from work each day.
Trolley's helped, but the end of the line still kept you a prisoner of
the local labor market. It wasn't until the advent of popular automobile
ownership arose that this problem of local labor imbalances evened out.
>
> >This boils down to.. did the Unions distort the market. If they
> >did, they created inefficiencies.
>
> What they did was create workers rights, which didn't exist before.
They did exist before, but were treated as contractual issues in the
guild system. Industrialization broke this system down somewhat, and it
is evident that this early industrialization period was the true start
of the shift of the US from a libertarian free market to a more
mercantilist system of business colluding with government.
>
> >Worth $6 to whom? The company? Why are you worth more then
> >everyone else? My supposition was the normal wage for a particular
> >job was $3. Why cant I come in and offer to do the same job as the
> >union guys at a lower price?
>
> For the record I'm always worth alot more than I'm paid.
>
> Because the Union guys have agreed to work only with other union
> guys.
A reestablishment of the guild system, of course.
I have a personal ax to grind with unions though. When I left the US Air
Force, Boeing had dropped their job offer to me, and the IBEW refused to
recognise ANY of my military training as an aircraft electrician. They
demanded that I go through their two year apprenticeship school and
three years more after that working for $7 an hour (in Seattle) with no
advancement whatsoever from my military experience. I told them to stuff
it. I figured that if that was how unions 'protected' workers, they were
frauds. All they are is seniority protectionist rackets.
>
> >Like someone else said in their post, the unions can bitch and
> >whine all they want. End the end, Mexico will get the jobs and
> >those union saps will be out of work. Thell learn they cant
> >control market forces long without paying the piper.
>
> My job isn't going to Mexico Jerry, and never will.
That's beacause you are a skilled laborer, Brian. However, don't be too
surprised to be replaced some time in the future with mexican temporary
workers.
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