From: Olga Bourlin (fauxever@sprynet.com)
Date: Tue Aug 28 2001 - 19:35:01 MDT
From: "Harvey Newstrom" <mail@HarveyNewstrom.com>
> Lee Corbin wrote,
> > > Lee Corbin wrote:
> > > > No, I don't like diversity at all (except economic diversity).
> > > > It leads to group consciousness and divisiveness. Many people
> > > > thus just simply can't help but think of themselves as "this
> > > > Jew", or "this black woman", or "this gay person", etc.
>
> This has not been my experience at all. I find most people strongly
dislike
> being pigeon-holed into a classification. Jews don't like being treated
> different because they're Jews. Blacks don't like being treated different
> because they're blacks. Women don't like being treated different because
> they're women. Gays don't like being treated different because they're
gay.
> That's the whole point behind equal rights, to treat different groups the
> same. Religion, race, gender and orientation shouldn't matter.
>
> I believe diversity will help people become more comfortable with
different
> cultures. It should lessen the problem rather than increase it.
>
> Besides, I don't know how you can dislike diversity. People are diverse.
> Do you wish they weren't? Do you wish all those groups you mentioned
would
> be more like straight white males?
>
> I believe divisiveness and group consciousness is the historical norm.
More
> diversity and mixing of cultures will help people to stop classifying
people
> by race or orientation as much.
>
> Since self-organization, freedom, individuality, competition, free-market
> and sometimes evolution are considered to be primary Extropian principals,
I
> find it hard to imagine an Extropian framework that does not seek to
promote
> diversity.
>
> > Well, it doesn't apply to you, then, if you don't so strongly
> > identify with being a woman, or a lesbian, or whatever, to the
> > point that it suppresses your own unique individuality. I'll
> > grant that most of those who do not appreciate diversity will
> > see you first as a whatever---but, sad to say, most of those
> > who *do* appreciate diversity will also see you first as a
> > whatever.
>
> A common misconception about "them" or any other group. Let's assume you
> are a straight white male. Do you self-identify your racial purity of
> whiteness so much that it suppresses your own unique individuality? Are
you
> so male that you are the same stereotypical guy that every other male
> stereotype is? Are you so identified as being straight, that you are not
an
> individual? I think it would be rather silly if you were. If your own
> race, gender and orientation don't prevent you from being an individual,
why
> should you project this limitation onto other races, genders or
> orientations?
>
> > And the more difficult question is: to what degree do you feel
> > more comfortable with others who are women and lesbians (not
> > redundant, it turns out)? Here is the horror: you *do* have
> > more in common with them and so *must* have *some* comfort
> > derived from that. There is the fiendish "reverberant doubt",
> > a notion derived from what Hofstadter wrote about some game
> > theory tableux: when not with a woman or a lesbian, you have
> > to wonder, "does this person see me as different and perhaps
> > cannot help but doing so and is perhaps asking him/herself
> > "does this person see me as different and perhaps cannot help
> > but doing so and is perhaps asking him/herself "does this person...
>
> Maybe you are projecting your own thoughts onto others. Do you find
> yourself uncomfortable in the presence of women? Do you prefer the
presence
> of men because you worry about how women view you? Do you feel
> uncomfortable among Jews or blacks? Do you prefer to be among "your own
> kind"? If so, you should realize that not everybody feels this way. If
> not, why do you assume that everyone else must? Part of the concept of
> diversity is that everybody is different.
>
> > Yes, that seems correct to me. Wish us all luck, because we
> > are going to need it, pace Singularity.
>
> This sounds ominous. Do you think diversity is going to cause something
bad
> to happen? Why do we need to wish us all luck?
>
All good comments, Harvey ... and at the very end -- GOOD QUESTION.
Yes, please enlighten us, Lee.
Olga
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