From: Olga Bourlin (fauxever@sprynet.com)
Date: Mon Aug 20 2001 - 19:13:39 MDT
From: "Mitchell, Jerry (3337)" <Jerry.Mitchell@esavio.com>
> > >From: "Olga Bourlin" <fauxever@sprynet.com>
> >
> > >I personally don't understand the trust libertarians in general
> > >seem to put on "the individual." I don't recall reading of any
> > >time in our history (U.S. history) when libertarianism was
> > >supposedly in bloom, and when peace, prosperity and goodwill
> > >reigned. If there was such a time (a better time for citizens in
> > >the U.S., compared to recent years), I'd like to know when
> > >that time was.
> As far as the trust issue, I do believe that history shows nation/states
as
> being the purveyors of millions of deaths via wars, genocide, etc... Also,
> governments ARE a collection of individuals, just given the power of using
> legalized force. My question is, why would anyone trust governments given
> their history?
Different governments have had different histories -- some good, some bad.
With the checks and balances system in a democratic society, there is much
potential for good government.
> Also, the closest we come to a "golden age of libertarianism" is that
period
> of time here in the IS from the country's founding to about 1900. A nation
> with nothing but trees, rivers, and rocks was turned into the wealthiest
> nation of all time! Why didn't this happen elsewhere? What is it that we
had
> more then anyone else on the planet (don't even try the slave point, other
> countries had FAR more then we did)? I put forth freedom. Yes, it wasn't
> complete, and there were still government distortions of the market, but
> that was minimal. I recently heard a quote im going to adapt. "Only an
> intellectual could evade the fact that countries with more freedom tend to
> be wealthier and more peaceful".
Well, your view is just too ethnocentric. If you put forth "freedom" as the
reason, then you must make a case that people were free to enjoy that
freedom - otherwise, where's the beef? In the period of time you mention
women weren't free even to vote - sheesh. (And, sorry, but the slave issue
has to be brought up -- remember, the USA was supposed to be a democracy,
and that makes the America's involvement with slavery that much more
hyprocritical and shameful). As well, in many parts of the country Jews
weren't allowed to live in certain restricted areas - not just until 1900,
but way into the 1960s. Freedom? For whom? Don't get me wrong, I like our
democracy - I just think it needs to keep trying to live up to its name.
Government has helped achieve this more mature and actualized democracy only
in the past few decades (i.e., the individuals working within our
government - have achieved more for the common good than our more retrograde
form of "democracy" has ever achieved in the past).
Olga
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