From: Loree Thomas (loreetg@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Aug 08 2001 - 14:50:45 MDT
--- Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@datamann.com> wrote:
> c) the academies rejected my nomination not on any
> grounds of my own
> unfitness, but because my older brother had asthma
> (in their health
> forms, they ask "have you or any member of your
> family ever had:". When
> I disputed their rejection on that grounds, they
> sent specs for one of
> those treadmill tests, only requiring me to inhale a
> specified chemical
> before the test, which my doctor knew caused asthma
> attacks in 99% of
> the population. Thus, they rigged the test to
> eliminate me as a
> candidate.
Wow... a genuine conspiracy. So why didn't you take
legal action? Or did you? If so, what were the
findings?
> > > b) lost out on financial aid in college, which
> was
> > > biased to provide
> > > more aid to people of the same economic level if
> > > they were minorities.
> >
> > Did you get your education anyway... despite
> losing
> > out on financial aid? Do you think it's possible
> that
> > some of those black students might not have gotten
> > their educations at all if they had lost out?
>
> My parents had to pay full boat for my education,
> which I did not and
> could not afford to finish due to the expenses of a
> back injury. With
> three other siblings, they could only afford to send
> me for a year
> unless I obtained financial aid.
That wasn't a yes or no. Do you have a college degree
or not?
I have 5 other siblings. I also have an AA degree
which I paid for myself, no financial aid or help from
my parents and one of my brothers has an BS in EE,
also paid for by himself.
> >
> > > c) am constantly accused of being a
> > > racist/sexist/'rich elite' simply
> > > because I am a white male.
> >
> > I don't think it's simply because you are a white
> > male... But more because you say things like "am
> > constantly accused of being a racist/sexist/'rich
> > elite' simply because I am a white male."
> >
> > Like I said, I was a white male... and I never got
> > accused of being racist (or sexist, for that
> matter).
> > If you are constantly being accused of being
> racist,
> > maybe you should take a look at your words and
> > actions. It isn't just because you are a white
> male.
>
> Irrespective of my words and actions, which anyone
> objective enough on
> this list would understand are not racist, sexist,
> and I have certainly
> never been part of the 'rich elite'.
But accusations of racism and sexism are based on
words and actions (rich elite was thrown in by you...
red herring). Even if you feel your words and actions
aren't racist or sexist, some people DO feel they
are... because as you say you are being constantly
accused.
People seem to be objective enough to recognize that I
am neither racist or sexist, why do you think they
can't be objective when dealing with you?
> >
> > > In my experience, the only lack of opportunity
> that
> > > blacks I've known have had has been produced by
> > > their own memetic programming, and not by
> > > the system. When you are programmed to expect
> > > racism, that is exactly what you will get.
> >
> > Racism is caused by the people being discriminated
> > against, simply becuase they believe it exists?
> >
> > You didn't really just say that, did you?
>
> No, that is NOT what I said, so stop putting words
> in my mouth like you
> folks usually do.
"When you are programmed to expect racism, that is
exactly what you will get"
Seems pretty clear to me. Expectations of racism, on
the part of the victims, is the cause of racism.
In what way is my restatement wrong?
> I have met my share of bigots.
Me too.
I said this before, let me say it again... I DO NOT
think you would ever consciously commit a racist act.
I DO think you make unintentionally racist remarks.
> > Mike... I have no trouble at all believing you are
> a
> > good person who would never engage in overt acts
> of
> > discrimination... but you have deluded yourself if
> you
> > think that blacks bring it all on themselves...
> and it
> > is statements like that which result in you being
> > called racist... it has nothing to do with the
> color
> > of your skin.
>
> When I was in basic training, every black fellow who
> dropped out of
> training did so claiming 'racism', despite our three
> DI's being black
> and hispanic and female, respectively. Those fellows
> who stuck with it
> laughed at such insinuations as cop outs.
Hmmm... and yet I know many white males who worked
their way through school, receiving their education by
their own efforts rather than using grants or their
parents and didn't complain about AA being reverse
discrimination. In fact they laugh at the idea. It
strikes them as a cop out.
> I have
> seen these sorts of
> situations FAR more frequently than actual incidents
> of discrimination.
Different personal experiences, obviously. I have
rarely seen a black person claim discrimination where
none existed... and I saw actual discrimination
against blacks in the work place and by police in my
neighborhood on the average of once a week.
> A large amount of the poor opinion of blacks that I
> have seen in whites
> is that far too many blacks live down to the
> stereotypes that whites
> have, and thereby hurt all.
A lot of the poor opinion of whites that I have seen
in blacks is due to far too many whites engaging in
actual discrimination, some subtle, some not so
subtle. Some intentional, some unintentional.
> I do not say that discrimination against blacks
> doesn't exist. I have
> fought against it myself,
Good. Now maybe fight it IN yourself.
Take another look at what you've been writing to me.
Rather than trying to "win" this particular argument,
see if you can spot how anyone might so
"misunderstand" you as to think your statements are
racist.
Anyway... I feel I've made my points. I don't believe
there is much to be gained by continuing this thread.
Last word is yours.
Loree
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