From: Davin Enigl (enigl@earthlink.net)
Date: Mon Jun 25 2001 - 17:08:19 MDT
I agree with Amara Graps (below) and I would add a "spiritual experience" is
very different for me (a transcendental realist) than it is for an
anti-realist/Immaterialist who believes in a different metaphysics. Spirituality
is a very positive, word for me. It engenders a psychologically "good" emotional
feeling. And, is not what I think of when I hear the word "spiritualist." My two
of grandmothers were spiritualists -- e.g., they supposedly talked to the dead
during occult ceremonies. I cringe at that thought of that word and I have to
settle down a bit after hearing it.
–Davin C. Enigl, [I also like my name being so close to Leonardo
DavinCE’s.]
----- Original Message ----- From: Amara Graps To:
extropians@extropy.org Sent: 6/25/01 9:56:33 AM Subject: Re:
BOOKS: How to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci
About the word "spirituality" ..
First, one comment: if a person in this particular community has
the
role of spokesman/woman for "transhumanists" or "extropians",
then I
understand that one must aware of the public perception and
interpretation of the words they use. Otherwise, I don't think a
head
bashing of the definition of this word: "spirituality" is useful
or
important. In my mind, what is relevant is the _actions_ of that
person (hopefully they are acting on their core values), and how
they
live their life.
I'm not a spokeswoman, so I'm not concerned with how strangers
interpret my use this word. If someone who has observed my life
wants
to know more of what I call my spiritual path, then they can ask
me,
and I will tell them. Otherwise, I do not spend time promoting
my
ideals to people outside of my group of acquaintances.
From: Russell Blackford (rblackford@hotmail.com),Fri Jun 22 2001
I suggested at one point on this list that there is no need
for us to
use words such as "spiritual" and its cognates (I had in
mind a
comparison with the word "sin", but did not mention this).
[...]
Secondly, one response I had was that the word "spiritual"'s
very
vagueness can be useful in some contexts. Well, if anyone
finds that,
I'm not going to be a pest about the issue. Use whatever
language you
find useful by all means.
(So now, commenting on the above paragraph... )
IF words in the particular language exist!
IF one can find short and concise descriptions!
Last year at the request of someone, I wrote down how I would
view
god. I'm an atheist, and my spiritual views center around a deep
reverence of and respect for life, not around a creator.
However, I
was not successful in finding a short, concise description. In
the
English language, my description of my spirituality was several
pages
long, with phrases from physics, chemistry, humanities, budhism,
psychology, mathematics, mythology, etc. Not very useful for
strangers
to read. I would much rather strangers observed how I lived my
life,
in order to know what I mean by spirituality.
In other cultures, and with other languages, I have an even
harder
time finding the appropriate words. "Spiritual" (in those other
languages) is as concise of a description as I can find when I
am
living in a foreign (foreign, relative to me) culture. In those
situations, I have to consider all of the cultural contexts.
If you've not lived for long in other cultures, then try
imagining
what is involved to describe the psychological and philosophical
concepts (which are sometimes subtle, and sometimes bold) that
comprise living a committed lifestyle of being true to oneself.
Now
imagine that you are already a little bit of a freak in that
culture. If you can use words that people are already familiar
with,
then it helps alot for communicating with strangers.
Amara
(presently in Boulder, Colorado)
-- ********************************************************************* Amara Graps | Max-Planck-Institut fuer Kernphysik Interplanetary Dust Group | Saupfercheckweg 1 +49-6221-516-543 | 69117 Heidelberg, GERMANY Amara.Graps@mpi-hd.mpg.de * http://galileo.mpi-hd.mpg.de/~graps ********************************************************************* "Never fight an inanimate object." - P. J. O'Rourke --- Davin C. Enigl, Microbiologist --- enigl@aol.com
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