From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Sat Jun 23 2001 - 04:54:00 MDT
Mike Lorrey wrote:
>
> Al Billings wrote:
> >
> > Samantha wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > There are those of us here who have that also. Did you think we
> > > were all filtered out?
> >
> > People like Mike and others would like us to be... Transhumanism has no
> > place for spirituality in their minds. That is the main reason why I never
> > considered myself an Extropian over the last 10 years.
>
> Depends what you mean, Al. If you mean in a paranormal/supernatural
> sense, I think you'll get somewhere near 100% agreement among
> extropians, with the sole exception being the "we are living in a
> simulation" hypothesis, which requires that there be some computer/sysop
> who is the 'god' of this universe. If you mean in the new age freaky
> huggy shamanistic mumbo jumbo superstition sort of spiritualism, then
> you are quite right, all the better to avoid being condemned as a 'cult'
> by the likes of you and others....
>
I was not aware that there was a board headed by you Mike, or by
anyone else for
the grading of any patterns of belief held as long as the person
is committed to
progress and human transcendence. I see little point in
tossing aside fellow
travellers who believe in things (or don't believe in things)
you or I or anyone
else here does concerning spiritual (or much else). I think it
is pointlessly
fragmenting at best. It also sticks in my craw. Who the hell
are you to play
gate-keeper over such matters?
As I've said many times on here I think it is foolish to not
notice that the same
deep urge to transcend the human condition that fuels much of
science, technology
and more specifically, transhumanism and extropianism, also
fuels much spirituality
and religion. That common drive, that common reaching needs to
be captured and
channelled in ways that actually lead us forward to the future
we envision. Disowning
those who chare just as passionately and who are just as devoted
as you are because
they have different ideas of the nature of what is real or most
important or the best
means of proceeding is self-defeating.
Whether we are living in a simulation or soon will be there are
aspects of certain
forms of spirituality that are quite important. If we are
capable, as we all
believe we are, of becoming or creating beings (or their seed)
of vastly greater intelligence and
power, then some of these spiritual systems of applied ethics,
identity analysis,
analysis and reprogramming of the sense of self, universal
compassion and so on
become quite compelling. But we miss that if we are too busy
holding the line
against letting in anything that might be a bit different from
our current concepts
of rational materialism or however we fancy ourselves defined.
Don't throw out all that human effort and striving. Mine it for
what nuggests
it contains.
> I think that a great number of us share a great joy and wonder at the
> universe and its varied phenomena. We don't think that understanding
> those phenomena 'kills the magic' like so many self described
> 'spiritual' people complain. A number of us are quite creative artists,
> musicians, and writers (among other activities) who experience
> inspirational feelings on many occasions. As a younger man, I often felt
> closest to the 'sim sysop' when carving wide turns down a bowl of fresh
> powder snow, with the snow still falling and all sound suppressed by the
> environment. Today I usually get it when I write a particularly apt
> phrase or apply a particularly apt blend of color to some artwork. That
> sort of thing has nothing to do with religion, dogma, superstition, or
> any of that garbage, it just is.
Do not categorize religion as simply garbage. That is not
justified.
One person's garbage is another person's enabling and creative
worldview
and vice versa. There is much in religions and some spiritual
systems
that *is* garbage in my view. There is also much that is some
of the most
refined and sublime expression of human beings. It is important
to separate
one from the other without taking an authoritarian blanket
position.
- samantha
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