From: arctic.fox@ukgateway.net
Date: Mon Jun 04 2001 - 00:16:42 MDT
Hi Robert,
I'll let Harvey answer the more technical points he made. I'll have a go at
the rest, although by far the best resource to visit for plant based
nutrition is http://www.vegansociety.com and look under the nutrition
section, as this isn't really the forum to get into veganism debates.
At 22:47 03/06/01, Robert E. Lee wrote:
>As a vegetarian, I found Harvey Newstrom making some exaggerated claims
>about the benefits of a plant based diets. Perhaps this has to do with my
>ignorance of the science involved? I find that extraordinary claims by
>vegetarians prevent many rational people from taking us very seriously.
>
><snip>
>
>What a claim! It is almost like getting a blood transfusion in what way?
>
> > bodies produce, without absorbing extra from other animals. Veggie foods
> > are also contain more nutrients, more fiber, and less calories than meat.
>
>This seems rather dubious. What plant based foods contain more macro and
>micro nutrients per calorie than meat? I know there may be some, but not
>all.
The nutrient level of any food depends on the level of processing. That's
why for any diet it's better if you can cook for yourself as much as
possible and use wholefoods rather than living off TV dinners. How fresh
the produce is and the method of cooking can have a big impact. Shopping
daily and eating an amount of raw food is recommended (ok, so I'm a food
luddite).
> > Almost all healthy diet recommendations suggest cutting back on meat and
> > dairy products and increasing veggie consumption. Most human nutrient
> > requirements are filled by plants, with meat being good for only protein
>and
> > vitamin B12. More plant nutrients are being discovered all the time that
> > fight cancer, oxidation and promote intelligence.
>
>What about long chain omega-3 fatty acids? Unless you include flaxseed oil
>in your diet, only fish is considered a good source.
Then use flaxseed oil.
>What about iron?
>Clearly heme-iron from animals gets absorbed much more readily than plant
>based iron. Plus the phytates in grains and oxylates in green-leafy
>vegetables prevents absorbtion of this non-heme iron.
You could write a book on plant and meat iron absorpton. See the link given
above. Bodies are complex dynamic systems, you can't always say that dosage
x of compound y will cause z to happen - certainly with iron it all gets
very complicated. As a rough guide the number of anaemic vegans is roughly
the same as the number of anaemic meat eaters. Probably because some meat
eaters live off burgers and soda - it all comes down to a balanced and
varied diet.
>What about vitamin D,
>in someone who does not get sun exposure? It tends to come only from
>fortified milk. And calcium? Difficult to absorb unless you include dairy
>products in your diet.
Sun exposure: do you mean us computer geeks? The amount of exposure
required is very small, with the only problem in northern lattitudes.
Luckily vegan food can be fortified with D2 as opposed to D3 which comes
from an animal source.
> > Vegetarians report having more energy and less health problems than
> > meat-eaters. Those who do return to meat-eating report that they have to
> > slowly wean themselves back onto meat, just as people who don't drink milk
> > can become lactose intolerant and have to slowly wean back onto it.
>
>Some vegetarians report failure to thrive. Some have no change, or less
>energy. I don't buy the other claims, either.
>
I agree with you on that point.
> > Also, I personally disagree with the idea that we are evolved to eat meat.
> > I know humans like to think that we are at the top of the food chain, but
> > our claws, fangs, running speed and bloated carnivore stomachs are really
> > undeveloped when compared to most carnivores. We can't really kill and
>eat
>
>What about the idea that we were hunter gatherers for the majority of our
>evolutionary history? I have seen the above argument in the usual
>vegetarian books, but we have evolved from meat hunting chimps not cat
Again, it's possible to write a book debating this. Meat eaters say we
evolved eating meat, vegetarians say we evolved eating plants.
> > Anyway, health concerns are my reason for being vegetarian. It is a
>natural
> > choice for a life-extension diet. I even think seitan would be a good
> > choice for a calorie-restricted diet. The brand I use has 55 grams of
> > protein for only 250 calories.
>
>What brand? Tofu gets tedious three meals per day.
I think Harvey was going over the top on the protein thing. Loads of plant
food contain enough protein.
Paul
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