Re: Hate IRC? Was: Hate mail anyone?

From: Samantha Atkins (samantha@objectent.com)
Date: Wed May 30 2001 - 04:23:15 MDT


Ben Goertzel wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that the word "mental illness" is fully appropriate here; it
> strikes me as a little bit of an overstretched metaphor.
>
> We humans have *very severe mental limitations*, and we often demonstrate
> *counterproductive, self-defeating behaviors* as a consequence of these
> limitations. Many of these limitations don't have to do with our
> intelligence per se, but more with our limited ability to control ourselves,
> due to our powerful biological drives.
>

I don't think so. I think our control issues are less about how
powerful our drives are and more about how little most of us
have managed to understand ourselves and to form effective
abilities, much less much wisdom.

> "Illness" seems to me to refer to
>
> 1) a poor condition that some entity gets into, after previously being in a
> "healthy", non-ill state.
>
> 2) a condition that some entity is in which is markedly worse than that of
> other entities of the same kind (e.g. a congenital mental illness)
>
> I don't feel that either of these cases matches the human condition NOW.
> Rousseau, with his doctrine of the 'natural, primitive man', on the other
> hand, would definitely have disagreed with me, feeling that modern man's
> state of mind is a kind of technology-and-civilization-induced mental
> illness...
> As for me, I suppose we are far less limited than the organisms that came
> before us....
>
> On the other hand, would a superhuman AI view us as mentally ill because of
> our limitations? Probably not -- no more than we would view a dog as
> mentally ill because it spends all day crawling, sniffing and panting. An
> AI that acted like a human would be viewed as mentally ill, just like a
> person who acted like a dog.
>
> ben
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-extropians@extropy.org
> > [mailto:owner-extropians@extropy.org]On Behalf Of Natasha Vita-More
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:09 AM
> > To: extropians@extropy.org
> > Subject: Re: Hate IRC? Was: Hate mail anyone?
> >
> >
> > At 08:44 PM 5/28/01 -0700, Lee wrote:
> >
> > >I used to think it quite useless years ago to hear people
> > >pronounce "well, we're all mentally ill". But from the
> > >perspective of an SI, it could well be true.
> >
> > You are not far off, Lee. I agree with this statement. I think
> > that humans
> > have a psychological wiring that has run so deep in its neural pathways
> > that we have great difficulty overcoming. It is produced from the Limbic
> > system and although the Frontal Lobe has put a cap on it, to some degree.
> >
> > I think we will look back on humans and early transhumans (most of us) as
> > have a mental/emotional disease. Whether this disease is as strong and
> > certain types of severe schizomanic, to more mild boarder line personality
> > and depression, to even lighter degrees of insecurity, fear, jealousy, to
> > bad mood, irritability, etc.
> >
> > Each person may be outstanding in his or her intelligence, but resistance
> > to change in other areas and no matter how we tug and pull and claim that
> > we are so bright and capable, our shortcomings and blocked thinking are
> > like shirts untucked or dangling petticoat. They are there and
> > obvious, no
> > matter how we miss them.
> >
> > Thus, SI and posthumans and even late transhumans will evolve behind this
> > mental illness and interfere with intelligence by the very nature of its
> > chemical effects on the brain.
> >
> > I don't think it an insult to say the above, but a matter of common sense.
> > Even though we try our best to claim intelligence above all, the bare bone
> > truth is that humans are still entangled by fears.
> >
> > Natasha
> >
> >



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