From: Michael Lorrey (mike@datamann.com)
Date: Tue Feb 13 2001 - 15:51:59 MST
Neal Blaikie wrote:
>
> Michael Lorrey wrote:
>
> > I am libertarian and feel the same way, except that in my experience,
> > democrats are far more dishonest and corrupt than republicans.
>
> In my experience dishonesty is not a partisan character flaw. I prefer to look
> at individual actions and situations and try to examine them without a
> pre-determined bias. This is more work than a knee-jerk response, but is, alas,
> not as fun.
I have a different experience. Perhaps it is because most democrat goals
are so inimical to the concept of a free and open society based on trust
of the individual.
>
> > Do you mean he screwed up his ballot right away because he thought he
> > was too intelligent to have to read the directions?
> >
> > Now, if he did not pursue charges against the poll worker, thats his
> > problem.
>
> I suppose it's easier to just insult someone than try to discuss something
> reasonably. What are you afraid of? I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion
> here, and it seems like you would rather attack someone you don't even know (or
> anyone else you deem less intelligent or differently opinioned than youself)
> than court the possibility that your opinion may not be the only one that
> matters. As a matter of clarification, my brother is one of thousands of voters
> who has filed an official complaint (I really don't know the details) over being
> denied his right to vote. As for the ballots, unless you were there and have
> used them yourself, you really have no rational basis for sniping at peoples'
> intelligence or ability to use them. Since he has been voting at the same
> polling place for the last 20 years without any problems, I guess he just
> assumed his voting rights hadn't been undermined. He only noticed something was
> awry when it looked like things weren't lining up properly on the ballot. This
> is when he pointed it out to the poll worker and was basically blown off. I'm
> unclear why you have a problem with this.
I've always voted with a pen and ink ballot and never had any problem
with my ballot being counted properly. I've seen the Florida ballots in
question, and they couldn't be more plain.
>
> > You are just being a pouty little spoil
> > sport, like leftists usually are.
>
> Again, you resort to name-calling. This is not only insulting and immature, it
> is useless and a waste of everyone's time. If you are actually interested in
> presenting your point of view rather than just lashing out at imagined enemies,
> this tactic not only weakens your credibility, it totally defuses your own
> argument.
>
> Since I have never once identified myself as a Democrat or a leftist, I'm not
> sure what reasonable basis you have for making this statement. I have said at
> least one other time that I don't like Gore either, and certainly didn't vote
> for him, so why would I be pouting over him losing the election?
a) you voted Green = you are a leftist. Plain and simple. If you are not
a leftist you wouldn't vote Green.
b) saying whiny little playground things like 'Bush isn't the legitimate
President' is, plain and simple, WHINING. Act immature, get treated
immaturely.
c) we don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic. get over it. We
don't elect the president, we elect the electors. The dems approved
every measure before the election that they later objected to. They
tried to change the rules after the election. (IMHO they should have
been disqualified completely for doing it) They still lost. Too bad, get
over it, grow up.
> My complaint,
> which I stated explicitly, is that the election was not honest because of
> various shenanigans that took place. Just because these under-handed activities
> led to Bush being installed as president is irrelevant to me. Had it been the
> other way around I would feel exactly the same way. My problem is with the
> blatant disregard shown for the American people, and for our democratic rights
> (what little is left of them). It has nothing to do with who won. This is why I
> feel Bush is not legitimately the president, not because I don't like the
> outcome. It seems to me that anyone who actually believes in liberty should have
> a problem with this.
Considering that most shenanigans were beneficial to Gore and he STILL
lost, I don't feel the same way. I am breathing one big fat sigh of
'WHEW' that Bush won. I am so glad I campaigned for Nader and voted for
Bush. All those sneaky little dems that crossed party lines during the
primary to vote for McCain then re-registered as democrats got
themselves a little turnaround.
>
> > Gore has been cheated of the Presidency, but not by Bush. Clinton should
> > have been out of office over a year ago. Its Clinton who cheated Gore of
> > the job. If Clinton was not such a pathetic president, Gore would likely
> > have won. If Clinton hadn't approved Reno's Elian stormtrooper raid,
> > Gore would have won Florida by a statistically significant margin.
>
> I absolutely agree with you on this, and it is one of the reasons I see no
> significant difference between the two major parties. They both serve special
> interests that have little or no regard for the people, are both corrupt and
> dishonest, and all the empty rhetoric spewed by boths sides won't make a bit of
> difference in the quality of our lives. This is why I am confused why you would
> react in such a way that appears you are favoring the one side over the other.
> Why not toss them both out? I say let's have a politics that is free of such
> narrow and functionally empty dichotomies, one that actually reflects the will
> of the people. Maybe this is naive, and maybe it's impossible to achieve, but it
> seems like something worth working toward.
Toss both Clinton and Gore out? Thats what we did. ;-) They tried to
take the Lincoln Bedroom with them, apparently thinking that they
continue using it for fundraising in New York.
I'm frankly rather tired and exasperated with anyone who claims that
'Bush stole the election'. Anyone who says that either paid absolutely
no attention to the election and post-election, or else they just
accepted the DNC party line about what happened. In either case, saying
that is nothing more or less than whining. Get over it. Thats not name
calling, thats calling it like it is. Get over it, grow up, and pay
attention. Read the news paper. Watch news in depth and don't listen to
the big three networks. Between CNN and FOX you can generally get the
picture about what goes on. CNN is leftist, FOX is a bit to the right.
C-SPAN is probably the only source of unjudgemental political news
around.
In a day when the dems are continuously on the rampage to declare me and
people like me 'threats to national security', I cannot help but be
rather highly motivated to see them out of office. IMHO every democrat
(or republican) that passes a law that is unconstitutional should be
impeached automatically for violating their oath of office to 'protect
and defend the constitution'. If this were to occur, there'd be more
turnover on the Demcratic wing of Congress than in a McDonalds.
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