From: Michael S. Lorrey (mlorrey@datamann.com)
Date: Thu Dec 07 2000 - 13:59:40 MST
inniss@sprynet.com wrote:
>
> "Michael S. Lorrey" <mlorrey@datamann.com> wrote:
>
> >Neither do I. So long as self defense is acceptable, but initiation >of force is unacceptable, self defense will act as a natural >governor on the initiation of force. Government is thus not needed >for police protection. Note that in many instances of police >strikes, crime tends to DROP, because criminals are more afraid of >citizens taking things into their own hands than the possibility of >police cruelty.
>
> Being a dedicated non-libertarian, I usually lurk and bite my tongue through these exchanges, but this time I really can't resist offering a different perspective. These scenarios seem to me to be totally unrealistic. Sure, you may be a bad mofo now, but what about when you're 80? When I'm aged and/or infirm (still a very real possibility, regretably) will I still be even capable of handling a .357? I'll probably just want to call a well trained police force (which, by the way, I think I could make a strong case should remain part of the government function). Even if I somehow retain my ability to defend myself from ne'er-do-wells, or always have others to do it for me, into the foreseeable future there will continue to exist people for one reason or other on the margins. I don't really want to construct a society that says, "You're on you own."
Mike replies:
Many instances of self defense occur with elderly people. This
technology does not depend on physical strength, its an equalizer, not
an emphasizer of strength. Moreover, if YOU choose to live in a gated
community with its own security (as most seniors do already), then that
is YOUR CHOICE, but you won't have forced the same choice on everyone
else who is not in a position requiring some sort of dependency on
others.
Understand this: Society ALREADY says "You are on your own". Society is
only interested in catching and imprisoning someone after you are dead.
Police are not there for protecting individuals, and have no
responsibility to, they are there to catch people after the fact. In
many instances, police expend more energy protecting criminals from
justly irate victims and other citizens. They are bodyguards for crooks
(in and out of government).
>
> Also, my bs detector started to tingle when it was suggested that crime declines during a police strike. That would be an interesting phenomenon, but does not seem to be the norm by any means. Please check out the summary of relevant studies at http://www.ncjrs.org/works/chapter8.htm
Mike continues:
A pro-government document, found on a government site for a government
department that funds studies that perpetuate government controlled
groupthink. Oh, yeah, thats an unbiased source.
Since this is straying into PIC areas, it might be better to move this
to exi-freedom if we want to continue on this thread...
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