From: Max More (max@maxmore.com)
Date: Tue Sep 05 2000 - 23:20:09 MDT
I agree with Hal Finney's sensible remarks on this, but want to respond
regarding a few issues.
First of all, Paul, I can understand you being annoyed by Michael Lorrey's
harsh characterization of your discussion of the issue of "bugs in free
markets". I implore everyone here to maintain a civil level of discourse,
no matter how frustrated you feel.
That said, I find your reaction, Paul, to be out of proportion. Clearly
something else is going on here, and Mike's comment just triggered it. As
Hal noted, several people had engaged you on this issue in a perfectly calm
and reasonable manner. Most of us have long gone beyond the stage of seeing
free markets as *necessarily* optimal, but based on vast amounts of
evidence we see the burden of proof on those who would "improve" the system
on the other side. (Personally, I see plenty of room for improvement in our
political system, and think some of your concerns about the weak being
taken advantage of would be relieved by introducing more competition into
schools. And, FWIW, I stopped referring to myself as a "libertarian"
several years ago.)
At 05:35 PM 9/5/00, Paul Hughes wrote:
>]...] Oh I forgot, "I have questioned
>the high sanctity of the free-market church." "Be gone with you
>heretic! Be gone!"
>You should really listen to yourselves sometimes. Ever wonder why the
>majority of
>people who come across so called Extropian(TM) thinking run away? More
>and more
>people I've come to know as true extropians have completely distanced
>themselves
>from this movement which to them reeks of excessive dogmatism, irrationalism,
>hostility, name calling and online bullying.
Paul, your comments here puzzle me. You yourself have just stated that you
strongly favor free markets. So do most of us here.
Your rhetorical question " Ever wonder why the majority of people who come
across so called Extropian(TM) thinking run away?" seems to express your
personal frustration. Of course extropian thinking is not for everyone.
That hardly makes it dogmatic. Yes, there have been some unpleasant
exchanges on this list, but they are generally milder and less frequent
that on many email lists. The recently reissued List Rules are designed to
further enforce civility.
Paul, you go on to mention some unspecified "intelligentsia" who have
written off Extropy Institute as a joke. I must say that, coming out of the
blue, this seems like a mean-spirited comment. If you genuinely were
concerned that this was a common response, you would have raised it with me
or ExI's directors or advisors. Instead, it *appears* to me that you are
throwing out a punch (not to me personally, but to the members of this
List). In fact, all your comments seem to be about the Extropians List, not
about Extropy Institute.
I would like to know who are these people who regard ExI (or just the
List?) as a joke and why. Simply saying such a thing in a public forum is
an insult. Explaining your experiences in a concerned and constructive
manner is entirely different. I'm always open to hearing feedback about
ExI, positive or negative. I can't help some people disliking us. We cannot
satisfy everyone and should not try to do so. But I'm sure we could do
better, and I'd like to hear honest feedback on this.
>Until I can see a more honest and non-hostile attitude that is willing to
>discuss
>free-market solutions to pressing issues such as DeCSS and basic civil
>liberties,
>I'm boycotting the institute and this list indefinitely. This includes
>actively
>encouraging as many people as possible to avoid anything related to
>Extropy(TM)
>Institute as well as anyone else who advocates free market solutions that
>come at
>the expense of individual liberty.
I'm sorry to hear that and hope you will reconsider. I find your response
to be disproportionate. If you find the List discussions to be excessively
pro-free market, why reject everything else about the Institute--the Extro
conferences, the local lists and meetings, the website, extrodot.org, the
Extropian Principles (which nowhere demand acceptance of specific economic
or political systems), and our forthcoming knowledge management tool?
Onward!
Max
Max More,
max@maxmore.com or more@extropy.org
www.maxmore.com
President, Extropy Institute. www.extropy.org
Senior Content Architect, ManyWorlds Consulting
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