From: Edward Case (aces05@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu Aug 10 2000 - 18:34:18 MDT
[Non-member submission]
in quantum theory we must first assess the paradox of the photon. Does this
force-carrier exist in real time on the event horizon? Is the photon
traveling at sub-light speed or is it actually traveling at light speed?
How can this be measured? How do our eyes percieve light (photons)? The
paradox that Einstein set forth is clear. Can physical entities exceed
light speed. I'll continue to say we have more galaxies to explore than the
milky way. It may be that we are afraid to contradict the experts but here
I am contadicting Einstein. The light speed barrier is a myth like the
sound barrier. What happens at super light speed is siumply that super
light speed no need to be afraid of moving backward in time because time
will naturally pass at light speed as with any other aspect of reality. No
quantum phsyics needed no atrophy, nothing. we simply must move into the
new understanding as when glen exceeded the sound barrier.
> [Original Message]
> From: <owner-extropians-digest@extropy.org (extropians-digest)>
> To: <extropians-digest@extropy.org>
> Date: 8/10/00 8:21:27 AM
> Subject: extropians-digest V5 #219
>
>
> extropians-digest Thursday, August 10 2000 Volume 05 : Number
219
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:31:41 +0200
> From: "scerir" <scerir@libero.it>
> Subject: Re: Tipler disputes quantum nonlocality
>
> We can look at the quantum non-locality
> from two *very* different points of view.
>
> >From the *abstract* point of view many authors have
> pointed out that the quantum non-locality (EPR problem, etc.)
> does not exist or that it is not a weird phenomenon.
>
> Accardi i.e. shows that quantum non-locality, EPR, Bell's
> conditions are easily intelligible, in classical terms.
> It is well known his classical, Bell-type, real experiment.
> quant-ph/0007019, quant-ph/0007005.
>
> Adami and Cerf i.e. have shown that quantum measurement
> and non-locality are easily intelligible by means of
> information theory. Heisenberg and J.Rothstein (and
> now Zeilinger) had the same idea.
> quant-ph/9806047, quant-ph/9605039, quant-ph/9605002,
> quant-ph/9611032.
>
> Rovelli i.e. suggested that the notion of observer-independent state
> was non correct andI reformulated the problem of the interpretation
> of quantum mechanics in terms of information theory.
> All systems are assumed to be equivalent, there is no observer-observed
> distinction, and the theory describes only the information
> that systems have about each other.
> quant-ph/9609002.
>
> The same thing did Mermin, in his Ithaca Interpretation.
> quant-ph/9807055, quant-ph/9801057, quant-ph/9711052,
> quant-ph/9609013.
>
> The M.W.I. is useful too, as John Bell pointed out
> (this interpretation was dead at that time!). But this
> interpretation has lots of problems: no collapse means no
> entropy?; solipsism or worse; inner or radical non-locality.
>
> But from the *physical* point of view nobody (!)
> is able to *explain* those quantum non-locality experiments
> or those quantum non-separability experiments,
> i.e. the identical behaviour of those entangled particles
> inside those Franson-type interferometers,
> or the weird quantum-eraser exp., or the ghost interference exp.,
> etc. etc. etc.
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9501016
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9903047
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9809025
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9806043
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0007009
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9707030
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:51:30 -0400
> From: Matthew Gaylor <freematt@coil.com>
> Subject: Nanotechnology: New List Nano Veterinary Medicine
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 23:07:47 -0500
> From: fenequedvm@HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: NEW: Nano Veterinary Medicine
>
> Description:
> The NanoVet Medicine has been created to discuss how the new advances
> in Nanotechnology Research are going to affect the field of Veterinary
> Medicine. Those advances are expected to increase the longevity and
> improve the quality of life of our pets.
>
> Subscription instructions:
> To subscribe to NanoVet Medicine simply send a blank email to:
> nanovetmedicine-subscribe@topica.com Topica.com will send you a
> confirmation message. Once you reply to the confirmation message your
> name is going to be added to our list.
>
>
> Owner/moderator address: fenequedvm@hotmail.com
>
> **************************************************************************
> Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues
> Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA
> on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per
month)
> Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd., PMB 176, Columbus, OH 43229
> (614) 313-5722 Archived at http://www.egroups.com/list/fa/
> **************************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:52:20 +1000
> From: Damien Broderick <d.broderick@english.unimelb.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: Tipler disputes quantum nonlocality
>
> scerir" <scerir@libero.it> sent urls in profusion.
>
> This one is especially delicious:
>
> http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0007009
>
> since
>
> <Entangled photons are sent via an optical fiber network to two
> villages near Geneva, separated by more than 10 km where they are
> analyzed by
> interferometers. The photon pair source is set as precisely as
possible
> in the center so that
> the two photons arrive at the detectors within a time interval of less
> than 5 ps
> (corresponding to a path length difference of less than 1 mm). One
> detector is set in motion
> so that both detectors, each in its own inertial reference frame, are
> first to do the
> measurement! The data always reproduces the quantum correlations,
> making it thus more
> difficult to consider the projection postulate as a compact
description
> of real collapses of the
> wave-function. >
>
> What fun! Each photon does its utterly uncaused thing *first*, entraining
> the other...
>
> Damien Broderick
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 23:22:33 +1000
> From: Patrick Wilken <patrickw@csse.monash.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: worth a laugh
>
> [Non-member submission]
>
> P.A.T.R.I.C.K.: Positronic Artificial Technician Responsible for
> Infiltration and Ceaseless Killing
> W.I.L.K.E.N.: Wireless Individual Limited to Killing and Efficient
> Nullification
>
> Sigh.... So much for my vegetarian ideals come UPLIFT...
>
> U.P.L.I.F.T.: Upgraded Positronic Lifeform Intended for Fighting and
> Troubleshooting
>
> best, patrick
> -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - -----
> Patrick
> Wilken http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~patrickw
> Department of Psychology
> University of Melbourne, Australia +61 3
> 844-7613 Vox
> Psyche:
> http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au
> ASSC:
> http://www.assc.caltech.edu
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:22:46 -0600
> From: hal@finney.org
> Subject: Re: Nanotechnology: New List Nano Veterinary Medicine
>
> > The NanoVet Medicine has been created to discuss how the new
advances
> > in Nanotechnology Research are going to affect the field of
Veterinary
> > Medicine. Those advances are expected to increase the longevity and
> > improve the quality of life of our pets.
> >
> > Subscription instructions:
> > To subscribe to NanoVet Medicine simply send a blank email to:
> > nanovetmedicine-subscribe@topica.com Topica.com will send you a
> > confirmation message. Once you reply to the confirmation message
your
> > name is going to be added to our list.
>
> There's nothing wrong with vets speculating about nanotech, but it seems
> curiously focused. Every field will be impacted. Will we see separate
> lists discussing the effects of nanotech on plumbing? gardening? engine
> design? apparel? dentistry? heating and air conditioning? cleaning
> clothes? drawing and painting? garbage collection? travel and
> tourism? home and office furniture? sidewalk repair? cosmetics? TV and
> video? haircutting?
>
> The problem with focussing on such specific areas is that it tends to
> fragment the larger discussion of the basic capabilities of nanotech.
> How much do vets, or cosmetologists, or concrete suppliers know about
> nanotech? Their fields will be changed beyond recognition, undoubtedly.
> But it's hard to estimate when, or how the changes will be phased in,
> with our present state of knowledge. It seems premature to try to set up
> topic specific discussion lists when we know so little about the details.
>
> Hal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:38:48 -0700
> From: hal@finney.org
> Subject: Re: Tipler disputes quantum nonlocality
>
> scerir writes:
> > But from the *physical* point of view nobody (!)
> > is able to *explain* those quantum non-locality experiments
> > or those quantum non-separability experiments,
> > i.e. the identical behaviour of those entangled particles
> > inside those Franson-type interferometers,
> > or the weird quantum-eraser exp., or the ghost interference exp.,
> > etc. etc. etc.
>
> It's not clear what an "explanation" would constitute when you are talking
> about these phenomena. Usually when we ask "why", we want an explanation
> in terms of simpler principles. But the fundamental workings of QM are
> the simplest theory that we have today. Until we come up with a more
> fundamental theory than QM we can't expect to explain these phenomena
> other than to say that they fit the theory.
>
> As far as explanations for why QM is true, I've seen two directions.
> One is the anthropic principle. We see that QM gives us nice chemistry,
> plenty of common, stable elements each with its own unique chemical
> and physical properties. This allows not only for life, but also a
> diverse and stimulating environment that eventually led to intelligence.
> The anthropic principle tells us, given that we exist, that we will need
> some similar blend of stability and diversity.
>
> There is also the hope that our universe might turn out to be the
> *simplest* one possible that leads to life and intelligence. The universe
> is described by the laws of physics and the initial conditions. I find
> hope in that it seems that the initial state of the universe may have been
> very simply described. It was apparently a uniform, hot ball of energy.
> >From this, along with QM and gravitation, all of the complexity of the
> universe developed. The simplicity of the initial conditions lends hope
> that the combination of initial conditions plus laws of physics may
> also turn out to be relatively simple, among universes which can give
> rise to intelligence. This might give us a philosophical basis to say
> "why" QM is true.
>
> Hal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:52:54 -0400
> From: "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com>
> Subject: Weather Control
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to ask other peoples' ideas about weather control. Can
> rain, hurricanes and lightning be organized?
>
> I think there are technical methods that could be explored to see how to
> do some of those kinds of things in terms of altering weather patterns.
>
> There are almost certainly researches about this kind of thing.
>
> Ross
>
> - --
> Ross Andrew Finlayson
> Finlayson Consulting
> Ross at Tiki-Lounge: http://www.tiki-lounge.com/~raf/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
> From: phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu
> Subject: Re: Concorde Down
>
> > > Thirty year old technology, and still the fastest passenger aircraft
in
> > > the sky.
> > > Sigh...
>
> "The 747 is big and fast, but not because Boeing set out to build it that
way.
> The 747 is the smallest and slowest plane which could carry demand."
> -- paraphrase of something the WSJ
>
> - -xx- Damien X-)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:12:49 -0400
> From: "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com>
> Subject: Fish in Space
>
> Maybe some of the sea life could be put into space to see how it
> reacts. How does fish life react in space?
>
> - --
> Ross Andrew Finlayson
> Finlayson Consulting
> Ross at Tiki-Lounge: http://www.tiki-lounge.com/~raf/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:57:59 -0700
> From: "Terry Donaghe" <Terry@Donaghe.com>
> Subject: NANO:DNA makes tiny tweezers
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_873000/873097.stm
>
> Teeny tiny nanoscale tweezers. Each arm of the tweezers is only 7
> nanometers long.
>
> Terry Donaghe: terry@donaghe.com
>
> http://www.techstropia.com Your source for emerging technology news.
>
> Try http://www.extropy.com and open your mind.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:11:16 -0500
> From: "Everitt Mickey" <evmick@pnv.net>
> Subject: Re: Differing views of oil reserves
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Spike Jones <spike66@ibm.net>
> To: extropians@extropy.org <extropians@extropy.org>
> Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 1:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Differing views of oil reserves
>
>
> >That being said, the same land could be used to set up windmills
> >too. Windmills and cornfields should cohabitate nicely. spike
>
> There's a LOT of cornfields now....I know that for a fact since I'm in the
> business of taking Combines and Tractors to the people who grow corn. The
> problem is economics. There is MORE capacity to grow corn than there is
> demand FOR that corn at a price that justifies growing more corn. So
> there's lots of difficulties. Farmers going broke etc.
>
> It's political...as is everything.
>
> Also there are more and more WindFarms going up. The two most prominent
> areas are just east of the Bay Area and just east of BakersField in
> Taxifornia. There are however many more locations being built. I've
> noticed that the windfarms tend to be on land that's just about worthless
> for anything else...except maybe sheep. Different land than
cornfields....
>
> EvMick
> Big Cabin, Oklahoma
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 16:07:29 PDT
> From: "Zero Powers" <zero_powers@hotmail.com>
> Subject: DNA Motors Promise Faster, Smaller Electronics
>
> "An international team of scientists said Wednesday it had made the
world's
> first DNA motors, paving the way for molecular electronic circuits
thousands
> of times faster and smaller than silicon chips.
>
> ``You would have much smaller and faster computers. For the same surface
> area you could fit in some 10,000 times more components and you could
make
> three dimensional arrangements,'' Bernard Yurke, from Bell Labs, the
> research and development arm of Lucent Technologies, told Reuters..."
>
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20000809/ts/dna_dc_1.html
>
> - -Zero
>
> Learn how your computer can earn you money while you sleep!
> http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=38158
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:46:50 -0700
> From: "Technotranscendence" <neptune@mars.superlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Concorde Down
>
> On Wednesday, August 09, 2000 1:08 PM phoenix@ugcs.caltech.edu wrote:
> > > > Thirty year old technology, and still the fastest passenger aircraft
> in
> > > > the sky.
> > > > Sigh...
> >
> > "The 747 is big and fast, but not because Boeing set out to build it
that
> way.
> > The 747 is the smallest and slowest plane which could carry demand."
> > -- paraphrase of something the WSJ
>
> I was under the impression the 747 was originally designed to be a
military
> cargo plane, but was beaten out by the C-5, so Boeing put it on the
> commercial market.
>
> Daniel Ust
> http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:10:15
> From: "E. Shaun Russell" <e_shaun@uniserve.com>
> Subject: Re: NANO:DNA makes tiny tweezers
>
> Terry Donaghe wrote:
>
> >Teeny tiny nanoscale tweezers. Each arm of the tweezers is only 7
> >nanometers long.
>
> Wow. This is extremely exciting news; I don't think we're too far off the
> real thing, now.
>
>
>
> - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> E. Shaun Russell | Extropian, Musician, ExI Member
> e_shaun@uniserve.com | Owner of NWExtropians Group:
> - --------------------- http://www.eGroups/group/NWExtropians
> *Editor of ExtroDot *Editor of TransDot
> http://www.extrodot.org http://www.transhuman.memetree.com
> ======================= ==================================
> Hear my music at: http://www.mp3.com/eshaunrussell
> Read my poetry at: http://www.therecord.net/e_shaun
> - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> <K I N E T I C I Z E Y O U R P O T E N T I A L>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 22:30:19 -0400
> From: Brian Atkins <brian@posthuman.com>
> Subject: genius genes
>
> Some genes for intelligence may have been found:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_850000/850358.stm
>
> (Obligatory Rifkin quotes included of course)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 19:34:58 -0700
> From: Spike Jones <spike66@ibm.net>
> Subject: Re: Concorde Down
>
> Technotranscendence wrote:
>
> > I was under the impression the 747 was originally designed to be a
military
> > cargo plane, but was beaten out by the C-5, so Boeing put it on the
> > commercial market.
>
> Ja, well Lockheed kicked Boeing butt that time. Of course, they
> kicked ours in the 747 vs L1011 contest... {8-[ spike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:58:05 GMT
> From: "john grigg" <starman125@hotmail.com>
> Subject: A research project worth donating to...
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I wish to tell you about a very worthwhile organization which deserves
> donations from extropian list members. It is the Institute for Neural
> Cryobiology. The research program for it is called the Cryopreservation
of
> Hippocampal Slices Project. The goal is perfected vitrification of the
> brain.
>
> I now share with you a list of the leadership who are trying to push the
> work forward.
>
> The founder and chairman of the board is Thomas Donaldson, Ph.D. -
Founder
> and Chairman of the Board Thomas Donaldson has a PhD in mathematics and
has
> published one technical book and several long papers on partial
differential
> equations and related techniques. He has published many articles of
> speculative science in the popular magazine Analog Science Fiction and
Fact.
> One of these, 24th Century Medicine, has been reprinted and anthologized.
He
> has also written a reference book for anyone seriously interested in
using
> some of the drugs known to increase lifespan in animals - A Guide To
> Antiaging Drugs.
>
> Thomas Donaldson has been reading and teaching himself about cryobiology
and
> neuroscience, since the early 1970's. Since 1991 he has been publisher
and
> editor of Periastron, his own newsletter about cryobiology, neuroscience,
> memory, consciousness and identity.
>
> He can be reached at
> tdonald@hubble.dialix.com.au
>
> Peter Gouras, M. D. - Director
> Peter Gouras is an ophthalmologist and vision research scientist. He
> received his education in New York City, obtaining his MD from Johns
Hopkins
> University in 1955, and surgery internship at Johns Hopkins Hospital in
> 1955-56.
> Dr. Gouras has held fellow, research, instructor, and/or leadership
> positions at:
>
> National Institute of Neurological Diseases & Blindness, National
Institute
> of Health
> National Foundation, Physiology Laboratory, Cambridge, England
> Physiology Department, School of Medicine, University of Pennsylvania
> Neurological Institute, University of Freiburg, Breisgau, Germany
> Since 1978, Dr. Gouras has been Attending Ophthalmologist at Columbia
> Presbyterian Medical Center, and, since 1981, Professor of Ophthalmology,
> Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons.
>
> Paul Wakfer - Director and President
> Paul Wakfer is a 62 year old Canadian whose home is in Toronto, but who
has
> spent much time in Southern California. Paul is family oriented,
treasures
> the innocence and wonder of bright young minds, and enjoys spending time
> with his grandchildren. Since childhood Paul has believed that the
> degeneration of aging was to be fought, prevented and overcome,
especially
> in regard to age related mental diseases and decline. While working to
> promote this, he practices a healthy and mentally enhancing lifestyle to
the
> extent that this is determinable from current knowledge. This includes a
> calorie restricted diet, extensive use of nutritional supplements, and
> significant mental and physical exercise.
> Paul is an honors graduate of the University of Toronto in Engineering
> Physics (BASc - 1959) and received a master's degree in Applied
Mathematics
> (1960). In 1959, he won the Canadian Association of Physicist's prize in
a
> nationwide competition of undergraduate physics students.
>
> Paul has held the following positions:
>
> Research Assistant & Graduate Student, Courant Institute of Mathematical
> Sciences, New York Univ (1960-1962)
> RCAF Flight Lieutenant and Mathematics Instructor, College Militaire
Royale,
> St. Jean, Quebec (1962-1964)
> Assistant Professor of Mathematics, Scarborough College, University of
> Toronto (1964-1970)
> Canada Council Fellow and Graduate Student, McMaster University,
(1970-1972)
> Computer Analyst & Consultant, Hardware/Software Instructor, Control Data
> Corporation (1973-1983)
> Chief Systems Integrator of postal automation systems, Computing Devices
of
> Canada (1978-1981)
> Designer/instructor of "Microcomputer Hardware for the Technically
Oriented"
> (1983-1990)
> President, Cryovita Laboratories, Inc. (1992-1996)
> Cofounder and Executive Director, 21st Century Medicine (1993-1994)
> Paul has been a self-employed computer consultant for over 20 years. In
> Toronto, from 1983 to 1991, he started and operated a very successful
full
> service computer business.
>
> Paul has always maintained a burning interest in all the sciences and in
> bettering the human condition by rational means. After selling his
business
> in 1991, Paul became a frequent visitor to the US in order to further
this
> interest. Since then he has been very active in the life extension
movement
> and instrumental in funding and encouraging life extension research, as
> president of Cryovita Laboratories, as a founder of 21st Century
Medicine,
> and now, as President of The Institute for Neural Cryobiology. Paul is
also
> a member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
>
> Paul Wakfer may be contacted by email, Voice: 416-968-6291, Fax:
> 559-663-5511,
> or by postal mail at: 238 Davenport Rd, #240, Toronto, ON M5R 1J6 Canada
>
> Gregory M. Fahy, Ph. D . - Director of Research
> Personal Information
> Born on April 27, 1950 in Los Angeles, California.
> Married with no children.
> Education
> University of California, Irvine, B.S. (Biology), 1972
> Medical College of Georgia, Augusta, Ph.D. (Pharmacology and
Cryobiology),
> 1977
> American Red Cross, Postdoctoral Fellow, 1977-1980
> Winter Neurobiology Course, Woods Hole Marine Biological Laboratory, 1980
> Positions Held
> Medical College of Georgia, Teaching Assistant, 1972-1977
> American Red Cross, Research Associate, 1980-1984
> American Red Cross, Research Scientist, 1984
> American Red Cross, Scientist II, 1984-1994
> American Red Cross, Project Leader, 1987-1994
> Life Resuscitation Technologies, Inc., Chief Scientist, 1995-1997
> Organ, Inc., Chief Scientist, 1995-1997
> Head, Tissue Cryopreservation Section, Naval Medical Research Institute,
> 1995-1997
> Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Biochemistry, University of California at
> Riverside, 1997-present
> Director of Research, The Institute for Neural Cryobiology, 1998-present
> Vice President for Cryopreservation Research, 21st Century Medicine,
> 1998-present
> Honors Awarded
> Grand Prize for Medicine, 1995, INPEX
> Tiffany Award, American Red Cross, 1984
> Who's Who Among Students in American Universities and Colleges, 1977
> "Honors in the Biological Sciences", UCI, 1972
> Professional Activities
> Treasurer, Society for Cryobiology, 1985-1987
> Editor, News Notes, Society for Cryobiology, 1986-1987
> Symposia/workshop organizer, Society for Cryobiology, 1981, 1985, 1989
> Symposia/workshop editor, Cryobiology, 1986, 1989
> Referee for: Cryobiology, American J. Physiol., Clinical Chemistry, J.
> Phycology, J. Insect Physiol., International Science Foundation,
Australian
> Research Council, and NSF Board of Directors, American Aging Association
> (AGE), 1991-1994, 1996-present
> Editor, AGE News, 1995-present
> News & Views Editor, AGE, 1995-present
> Board of Directors, American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M), 1993
> Symposium organizer, A4M, 1995, 1996
> Program Committee, A4M, 1993-1996
> Senior Consultant for Medical and Pharmaceutical Technologies, Center for
> Constitutional Issues in Technology, 1993-1995
> Medical Advisory Board, National Defense Council Foundation, 1994-1996
> Science Advisory Board, Nanothinc, 1994-present
> Board of Advisors, TN 2000, 1994-1996
> Participant, Military Health Service System 2020, 1996
> Consultant, U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention, 1993, 1994
> Frequently invited speaker at workshops, symposia, courses, and corporate
> meetings involving organ cryopreservation and cryobiology
> Frequent media spokesman on cryobiological topics
> Author of numerous popular scientific articles, mostly on aging
> Professional Society Membership
> American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine
> American Aging Association
> American Association for the Advancement of Science
> New York Academy of Sciences
> Society for Cryobiology
> Transplantation Society
> Research Interests
> Organ preservation by conventional and cryobiological means, particularly
by
> vitrification
> Biochemical mechanisms of cryoprotectant toxicity
> Mechanisms of aging and experimental and clinical intervention in aging
> Molecular nanotechnology
> Grants Awarded
> Molecular Approaches to Ice Control for Engineered Tissue Storage
$1,894,000
> October 1997-September 2000; National Institute of Standards and
Technology
> (co-applicant)
> Basic Mechanisms Underlying Extended 4oC Storage of Red Cells $360,551
> Oct-Dec, 1994; Naval Medical Research and Development Command
> Resuscitation of Ischemically Damaged Organs $26,500 July 1993-June 1994;
> Life Resuscitation Technologies, Inc.
> Key (but not primary) author of many other funded grants on
cryopreservation
> of organs (1977-1992)
>
> So now you know the caliber of people involved in this organization. To
> learn more go to their website at http://www.neurocryo.org/ and
investigate
> for yourself.
>
> Donations of equipment, property or any assets are acceptable. All cash
> donations show be made payable and sent to:
>
> The Institute for Neural Cryobiology
> 1606 E Washington St #308, Colton, CA 92324
>
>
> I have donated twenty dollars to the organization myself. Not very much,
> but at least it is something. Considering my income it is actually a
> generous donation. I would ask all of you to please seriously consider a
> financial donation.
>
> This organization desperately needs funding to keep going and Ben Best
has
> donated ten thousand himself; though he is not by any means a rich man.
Dr.
> Greg Fahy is a strong believer in the project and for those of you who
know
> of his reputation that should say something. Please, just donate what
you
> can.
>
>
> sincerely,
>
> John Grigg
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:09:54 -0700
> From: Alex Heard <aheard@wired.com>
> Subject: StockGeneration story in Wired
>
> - --============_-1246245497==_ma============
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Hey, All:
>
> This is Alex Heard, the Executive Editor at Wired. Several months ago=20
> I saw a posting on this list about the online investment game=20
> StockGeneration, and the writer's enthusiasm for it prompted me to=20
> assign a story on SG and what it was really all about.
>
> I just wanted to let you know that the story will be out in the=20
> September issue, and it's a pretty amazing expos=E9 of how a=20
> Net-powered pyramid scheme -- apparently run by a mysterious Russian=20
> fugitive through offshore servers in Dominica -- attracted nearly=20
> 275,000 players worldwide. The person whose message on this list=20
> originally caught my eye -- Rick Potvin -- is now convinced that SG=20
> is a scam, too.
>
> I think you'll find this piece interesting, especially since several=20
> of you clearly saw at the time of Potvin's first email that SG was=20
> bad news. If you don't get Wired, please note: the article will be=20
> available online sometime in late September.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Alex Heard
>
>
> - --============_-1246245497==_ma============
> Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
> Hey, All:
>
>
> This is Alex Heard, the Executive Editor at <italic>Wired</italic>.
> Several months ago I saw a posting on this list about the online
> investment game StockGeneration, and the writer's enthusiasm for it
> prompted me to assign a story on SG and what it was really all about.
>
>
> I just wanted to let you know that the story will be out in the
> September issue, and it's a pretty amazing expos=E9 of how a Net-powered
> pyramid scheme -- apparently run by a mysterious Russian fugitive
> through offshore servers in Dominica -- attracted nearly 275,000
> players worldwide. The person whose message on this list originally
> caught my eye -- Rick Potvin -- is now convinced that SG is a scam,
> too.
>
>
> I think you'll find this piece interesting, especially since several of
> you clearly saw at the time of Potvin's first email that SG was bad
> news. If you don't get Wired, please note: the article will be
> available online sometime in late September.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Alex Heard
>
>
>
> - --============_-1246245497==_ma============--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:32:56 +1000
> From: Damien Broderick <d.broderick@english.unimelb.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: Tipler disputes quantum nonlocality
>
> At 12:38 PM 9/08/00 -0700, Hal wrote:
> >scerir writes:
> >> But from the *physical* point of view nobody (!)
> >> is able to *explain* those quantum non-locality experiments
> >> or those quantum non-separability experiments,
> >> i.e. the identical behaviour of those entangled particles
> >> inside those Franson-type interferometers,
> >> or the weird quantum-eraser exp., or the ghost interference exp.,
> >> etc. etc. etc.
> >
> >It's not clear what an "explanation" would constitute when you are
talking
> >about these phenomena. Usually when we ask "why", we want an explanation
> >in terms of simpler principles. But the fundamental workings of QM are
> >the simplest theory that we have today.
>
> I thought scerir was pointing out that although QT is simple in the Ockham
> sense and works rather well, it appears to contain key elements that
are...
> *silly, too silly*. When you have a gadget that switches a light on with
> the photons that are emitted from the light that has been switched on (to
> use a clumsy analogy), I reckon you're in trouble, even though it does
> possess a wonderful zany simplicity.
>
> Damien
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 20:51:06 -0700
> From: Spike Jones <spike66@ibm.net>
> Subject: Re: genius genes
>
> Brian Atkins wrote:
>
> > Some genes for intelligence may have been found:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_850000/850358.stm
> >
> > (Obligatory Rifkin quotes included of course)
>
> OK, lets look at what Rifkin said. [Comments in square brackets mine.]
>
> "Every parent wants the best for their child,"
> said Rifkin.
>
> [OK, nothing too controversial in that comment.]
>
> "In the future, the parent could
> become an architect and each child the
> ultimate shopping experience.
>
> [Sounds good to me.]
>
> "In the next 10 or 20 years we could have
> eugenics with a smiling face.
>
> [Sounds good to me.]
>
> "We will no longer
> require the lower classes to have fewer
> babies;
>
> [He was doing great until this comment, which demonstrates
> that he is an idiot. I know of no laws requiring lower classes
> to have fewer babies.]
>
> "we will just have them have better
> babies as we learn to do gene therapy."
>
> [RIGHT! Right you are, Jeremy Rifkin! Who would have
> any argument with people having better babies?] spike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:01:31 -0400
> From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <retroman@turbont.net>
> Subject: Re: Concorde Down
>
> Spike Jones wrote:
> >
> > Technotranscendence wrote:
> >
> > > I was under the impression the 747 was originally designed to be a
military
> > > cargo plane, but was beaten out by the C-5, so Boeing put it on the
> > > commercial market.
> >
> > Ja, well Lockheed kicked Boeing butt that time. Of course, they
> > kicked ours in the 747 vs L1011 contest... {8-[ spike
>
> The L-1011 is my favorite air liner. I used to love to fly on them with
> TWA when flying from Seattle to Boston nonstop. The huge legroom that
> coach seats had was incredible (wide seats too).
> - --
> TANSTAAFL
>
> Mike Lorrey
>
> "In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When
> the
> Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give
> to
> them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility,
> then
> Athens ceased to be free." --- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794)
>
> "A person who wants a society that is both safe and free, wants what
> never
> has been, and what never will be." --- Thomas Jefferson
>
> "It's a Republic, if you can keep it..." --- Benjamin Franklin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:18:24 +1000
> From: Damien Broderick <d.broderick@english.unimelb.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: genius genes
>
> At 08:51 PM 9/08/00 -0700, Spike wrote:
>
> > "In the next 10 or 20 years we could have
> > eugenics with a smiling face.
> >
> >[Sounds good to me.]
> >
> >"We will no longer
> > require the lower classes to have fewer
> > babies;
> >
> >[He was doing great until this comment, which demonstrates
> >that he is an idiot. I know of no laws requiring lower classes
> >to have fewer babies.]
>
> Spike, Rifkin's referring to the traditional eugenics platform, which
*did*
> suggest laws restricting the number of kids that `stupid', `degenerate',
> `worthless' poor people might have. That was a bad, offensive approach
that
> has given the whole idea of genetic improvement the stench it has today
> (well, and Hitler's borrowing of it didn't help, either).
>
> Actually I've rarely seen such a vulgar composite of old rubbish
> masquerading as a BBC news report.
>
> I especially relished:
>
> >The discovery has been seized on by
> > some on the Right who claim it backs
> > their view that the way people turn
> > out depends more on the genes with
> > which they are born rather than on
> > the schools they attend.
>
> Ah, this explains why they send their kids to Eton, eh? Then again, I
> suppose intelligence per se has never been a big consideration in Tory
> schooling.
>
> Damien Broderick
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:02:48 +0200 (MET DST)
> From: Amara Graps <Amara.Graps@mpi-hd.mpg.de>
> Subject: dust jokes (was Re: Strengths of materials)
>
> From: Michael S. Lorrey (retroman@turbont.net),
> Aug 08 2000
>
> >>sweet pic, Amara. Wait, I know that fuzzball. I've got tons of them
under my
> >>bed... ;)
> Amara Graps wrote:
> > Here is a picture of an aluminum oxide sphere attached to a
> > micrometeroid (cosmic dust) particle:
> >
> > http://galileo.mpi-hd.mpg.de/~graps/earth/image001.gif
>
> Mike-
>
> One of the advantatages of working in the cosmic dust field, is that I
> have special access to all of the dust jokes. Sometimes,
> unintentionally.
>
> During one of my first dust talks, a couple of years ago at a
> conference in Slovakia, I was having some trouble removing a piece of
> dust that had stubbornly attached itself to one of my viewgraphs,
> which was about the Jovian dust streams.
>
> The irony of my trying to remove a piece of dust on my viewgraph,
> which was all about dust, was not lost on some of my audience. In
> particular, there was a group of people in the back that were laughing
> so hard, that they almost fell off of their chairs. And I didn't know
> what they were finding so funny, and I was flustered and embarassed
> about my stuborn piece of dust!
>
> I did survive my talk, and one of them told me afterwards what they
> found so funny. It seems that I was a perfect straight man in a comedy
> skit during my own presentation, unintentionally.
>
> Since then, I use dust jokes, whenver possible. I put every dust joke
> I could think of, including the "dust bunnies under the bed" joke in
> my Sky and Telescope interplanetary dust article, that I wrote this
> summer. I don't know what, in the article, will finally appear in
> print (or when it will appear in print), but I hope that they keep my
> dust jokes...
>
> Amara
>
>
> - --
>
> ***************************************************************
> Amara Graps | Max-Planck-Institut fuer Kernphysik
> Interplanetary Dust Group | Saupfercheckweg 1
> +49-6221-516-543 | 69117 Heidelberg, GERMANY
> Amara.Graps@mpi-hd.mpg.de * http://galileo.mpi-hd.mpg.de/~graps
> ***************************************************************
> "Never fight an inanimate object." - P. J. O'Rourke
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 05:18:18 GMT
> From: "zeb haradon" <zebharadon@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Weather Control
>
> >From: "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com>
> >Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org
> >To: extropians@extropy.com
> >Subject: Weather Control
> >Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:52:54 -0400
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >I would like to ask other peoples' ideas about weather control. Can
> >rain, hurricanes and lightning be organized?
> >
> >I think there are technical methods that could be explored to see how to
> >do some of those kinds of things in terms of altering weather patterns.
> >
> >There are almost certainly researches about this kind of thing.
> >
> >Ross
> >
> >--
> >Ross Andrew Finlayson
> >Finlayson Consulting
> >Ross at Tiki-Lounge: http://www.tiki-lounge.com/~raf/
> >
> >
>
> It was posted here recently that cities effect weather patterns. They
soak
> up heat during the day (black rooftops and pavement) and release it at
> night, so extreme weather patterns - I think I'm getting this right -
tend
> to move around them.
> How about "paving" large tracts of land with a material which can change
the
> rate at which it gives off/soaks up heat. It would be like a national
> highway system, with the highways being miles long. By changing the
> temperature properties at key points in space and time, you could steer a
> weather pattern wherever you wanted it to go, or at least play an
influence.
> Maybe steer all the hurricanes into a winmill-populated plane.
>
> - ---------------------------------------------------
> Zeb Haradon (zebharadon@hotmail.com)
> My personal webpage:
> http://www.inconnect.com/~zharadon/ubunix
> A movie I'm directing:
> http://www.elevatormovie.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:24:18 -0400
> From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <retroman@turbont.net>
> Subject: Re: genius genes
>
> Damien Broderick wrote:
> >
> > At 08:51 PM 9/08/00 -0700, Spike wrote:
> >
> > I especially relished:
> >
> > >The discovery has been seized on by
> > > some on the Right who claim it backs
> > > their view that the way people turn
> > > out depends more on the genes with
> > > which they are born rather than on
> > > the schools they attend.
> >
> > Ah, this explains why they send their kids to Eton, eh? Then again, I
> > suppose intelligence per se has never been a big consideration in Tory
> > schooling.
>
> When your british aristos keep marrying their cousins, it does, I think,
> impact upon the results. Eton is merely a finishing school so the most
> impaired don't drool on themselves in public...
>
> - --
> TANSTAAFL
>
> Mike Lorrey
>
> "In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When
> the
> Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give
> to
> them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility,
> then
> Athens ceased to be free." --- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794)
>
> "A person who wants a society that is both safe and free, wants what
> never
> has been, and what never will be." --- Thomas Jefferson
>
> "It's a Republic, if you can keep it..." --- Benjamin Franklin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 22:53:15 -0700
> From: Spike Jones <spike66@ibm.net>
> Subject: Re: Concorde Down
>
> "Michael S. Lorrey" wrote:
>
> > > Ja, well Lockheed kicked Boeing butt that time. Of course, they
> > > kicked ours in the 747 vs L1011 contest... {8-[ spike
> >
> > The L-1011 is my favorite air liner. I used to love to fly on them with
> > TWA when flying from Seattle to Boston nonstop. The huge legroom that
> > coach seats had was incredible (wide seats too).
>
> Mine too. Even my modern standards it is a very comfortable aircraft
> for the long haul. If you want an interesting discussion of the L1011
> vs its real competitor the Douglas DC 10, Ben Rich discusses it in his
> book Skunk Works. The DC10 had the straight thru tail engine, which
> forced the rudder to be shorter, which required the wing engines to
> be closer inboard so that in a one-engine-out condition, the shorter
> rudder could overcome the resultant yaw. The L1011 had the more
> expensive and complicated (Lockheed loves to do things this way
> whenever possible) S-shaped thrust duct, allowing a longer rudder,
> allowing the wing engines to be further outboard, so the passenger
> compartment is quieter. The company calculated it would need to
> sell 250 of the 1011s to break even, and it sold 246 if memory
> serves correctly. spike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:14:52 -0500
> From: "Everitt Mickey" <evmick@pnv.net>
> Subject: Re: Weather Control
>
> Individual trees modify "microclimate". A few more trees make a major
> difference in heating/cooling a house (wind breaks). I would expect that
a
> forest would have a larger effect.
>
> This might be for OR against allowing trees to grow. Personally I like
> Utah.
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: zeb haradon <zebharadon@hotmail.com>
> To: extropians@extropy.org <extropians@extropy.org>
> Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Weather Control
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com>
> >>Reply-To: extropians@extropy.org
> >>To: extropians@extropy.com
> >>Subject: Weather Control
> >>Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:52:54 -0400
> >>
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>I would like to ask other peoples' ideas about weather control. Can
> >>rain, hurricanes and lightning be organized?
> >>
> >>I think there are technical methods that could be explored to see how to
> >>do some of those kinds of things in terms of altering weather patterns.
> >>
> >>There are almost certainly researches about this kind of thing.
> >>
> >>Ross
> >>
> >>--
> >>Ross Andrew Finlayson
> >>Finlayson Consulting
> >>Ross at Tiki-Lounge: http://www.tiki-lounge.com/~raf/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It was posted here recently that cities effect weather patterns. They
soak
> >up heat during the day (black rooftops and pavement) and release it at
> >night, so extreme weather patterns - I think I'm getting this right -
tend
> >to move around them.
> >How about "paving" large tracts of land with a material which can change
> the
> >rate at which it gives off/soaks up heat. It would be like a national
> >highway system, with the highways being miles long. By changing the
> >temperature properties at key points in space and time, you could steer a
> >weather pattern wherever you wanted it to go, or at least play an
> influence.
> >Maybe steer all the hurricanes into a winmill-populated plane.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------
> >Zeb Haradon (zebharadon@hotmail.com)
> >My personal webpage:
> >http://www.inconnect.com/~zharadon/ubunix
> >A movie I'm directing:
> >http://www.elevatormovie.com
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:02:42 -0700
> From: Spike Jones <spike66@ibm.net>
> Subject: Re: genius genes
>
> > At 08:51 PM 9/08/00 -0700, Spike wrote:
> >
> > >I know of no laws requiring lower classes
> > >to have fewer babies.]
> >
> > Damien Broderick wrote: Spike, Rifkin's referring to the traditional
> > eugenics platform, which *did*
> > suggest laws restricting the number of kids that `stupid', `degenerate',
> > `worthless' poor people might have. That was a bad, offensive approach
that
> > has given the whole idea of genetic improvement the stench it has today
> > (well, and Hitler's borrowing of it didn't help, either).
>
> I should have guessed the apparent silliness of the comment was
> a result of curious random inclusion by the reporting medium.
> But hey, I even bought one of Rifkin's books once, The End of Work.
> He states many things I agree with, but our outlooks on these
> statements are opposite. For instance, many Rifkinites will
> state that people will soon be able to genetically engineer our
> offspring. Rifkin et.al. merely state the fact with an unstated:
> "oh, the horror." I come away with an unstated: kewallll.
>
> > > out depends more on the genes with
> > > which they are born rather than on
> > > the schools they attend.
> >
> > Ah, this explains why they send their kids to Eton, eh? Then again, I
> > suppose intelligence per se has never been a big consideration in Tory
> > schooling.
>
> Define please, Tory? Is that what we would call a Democrat? Please
> excuse my ignorance. We are getting better tho. The internet is much
> better at delivering international news than American television and
> newspapers. Ive notices a lot of the news delivered by my ISP is
> from the BBC. spike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:22:55 -0700
> From: hal@finney.org
> Subject: Re: Tipler disputes quantum nonlocality
>
> Damien writes:
> > I thought scerir was pointing out that although QT is simple in the
Ockham
> > sense and works rather well, it appears to contain key elements that
are...
> > *silly, too silly*. When you have a gadget that switches a light on with
> > the photons that are emitted from the light that has been switched on
(to
> > use a clumsy analogy), I reckon you're in trouble, even though it does
> > possess a wonderful zany simplicity.
>
> Remember though that it was Niels Bohr who said, the theory is silly,
> but is it silly enough to be true? (Or was that Monty Python?)
>
> Hal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:40:25 -0700
> From: Doug Jones <random@qnet.com>
> Subject: Re: dust jokes (was Re: Strengths of materials)
>
> Amara Graps wrote:
> >
> > Since then, I use dust jokes, whenver possible. I put every dust joke
> > I could think of, including the "dust bunnies under the bed" joke in
> > my Sky and Telescope interplanetary dust article, that I wrote this
> > summer. I don't know what, in the article, will finally appear in
> > print (or when it will appear in print), but I hope that they keep my
> > dust jokes...
>
> Don't be surprised if nobody laughs, because your jokes are obviously as
> dry as...
>
> - --
> Doug Jones
> Rocket Plumber, XCOR Aerospace
> http://www.xcor-aerospace.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:55:01 -0700
> From: Doug Jones <random@qnet.com>
> Subject: Re: Weather Control
>
> "Ross A. Finlayson" wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to ask other peoples' ideas about weather control. Can
> > rain, hurricanes and lightning be organized?
> >
> > I think there are technical methods that could be explored to see how to
> > do some of those kinds of things in terms of altering weather patterns.
> >
> > There are almost certainly researches about this kind of thing.
>
> Ther was a science article in Analog around 10-15 years ago in which the
> author proposed very large cooling tower-like structures to be placed in
> hurricane susceptible regions. By large, read 6 km high by 1 km wide-
> these would work by encouraging a single large, efficient convection
> cell in place of many smaller ones, without disruption due to surface
> and midaltitude winds. The updraft would improve heat transfer from the
> surface to high altitude, resulting in local cooling and
> dehumidification to remove the power source for hurricanes (compare to
> the siphons proposed for Lake Nyos in the Cameroon to prevent another
> CO2 eruption).
>
> The condensation of water in the updraft would make it much warmer and
> thus lighter than the air outside the tower, providing the power to
> drive the circulation.
>
> The updraft would be fast enough to skydive in, and wind turbines near
> the base could tap off some of the power in the draft. Condensation in
> the tower could be captured and lowered through hydro turbines to
> generate more power- and would be a useful source of fresh water.
>
> A strong rain cloud would pour out the top, producing continuous rain in
> the region downwind of the tower. The environmental impact statement
> would be prodigious...
>
> - --
> Doug Jones
> Rocket Plumber, XCOR Aerospace
> http://www.xcor-aerospace.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 10 Aug 2000 10:01:06 +0200
> From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
> Subject: Re: dust jokes (was Re: Strengths of materials)
>
> Doug Jones <random@qnet.com> writes:
>
> > Amara Graps wrote:
> > >
> > > Since then, I use dust jokes, whenver possible. I put every dust joke
> > > I could think of, including the "dust bunnies under the bed" joke in
> > > my Sky and Telescope interplanetary dust article, that I wrote this
> > > summer. I don't know what, in the article, will finally appear in
> > > print (or when it will appear in print), but I hope that they keep my
> > > dust jokes...
> >
> > Don't be surprised if nobody laughs, because your jokes are obviously as
> > dry as...
>
> As a memory researcher I like to joke about forgetfulness in my talks,
> but I usually forget the jokes...
>
> (That was of course based on a joke so old that it probably existed in
> the primordial nebula alongside with the dust :-)
>
> - --
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
> asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
> GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 10 Aug 2000 10:06:53 +0200
> From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
> Subject: Re: Fish in Space
>
> "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com> writes:
>
> > Maybe some of the sea life could be put into space to see how it
> > reacts. How does fish life react in space?
>
> http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/space/ask/science/Fish_in_space.txt
>
> - --
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
> asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
> GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 10 Aug 2000 10:06:53 +0200
> From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
> Subject: Re: Fish in Space
>
> "Ross A. Finlayson" <raf@tiki-lounge.com> writes:
>
> > Maybe some of the sea life could be put into space to see how it
> > reacts. How does fish life react in space?
>
> http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/space/ask/science/Fish_in_space.txt
>
> - --
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
> asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
> GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:32:01 -0900
> From: "John M Grigg" <starman125@lycos.com>
> Subject: RE: genius babies
>
> Brian Atkins wrote:
>
> > Some genes for intelligence may have been found:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_850000/850358.stm
> >
> > (Obligatory Rifkin quotes included of course)
>
> OK, lets look at what Rifkin said. [Comments in square brackets mine.]
>
> "Every parent wants the best for their child,"
> said Rifkin.
>
> [OK, nothing too controversial in that comment.]
>
> "In the future, the parent could
> become an architect and each child the
> ultimate shopping experience.
>
> [Sounds good to me.]
>
> "In the next 10 or 20 years we could have
> eugenics with a smiling face.
>
> [Sounds good to me.]
>
> "We will no longer
> require the lower classes to have fewer
> babies;
>
> [He was doing great until this comment, which demonstrates
> that he is an idiot. I know of no laws requiring lower classes
> to have fewer babies.]
>
> "we will just have them have better
> babies as we learn to do gene therapy."
>
> [RIGHT! Right you are, Jeremy Rifkin! Who would have
> any argument with people having better babies?] spike
> (end)
>
> Jeremy Rifkin did not use the argument I was so sure he would!! I would
have bet money he would say, "the upper-classes will be able to pay to have
their children given superior intelligence while the lower-classes won't
have the option" and "And this will create an even worse imbalance among
the have's and have-not's within our society" and "Don't the wealthy
already have enough advantages?"
>
> I should go work for the guy to help him out... ;)
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> Send your favorite photo with any online greeting!
> http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/americangreetings.rdct
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 10 Aug 2000 14:00:19 +0200
> From: Anders Sandberg <asa@nada.kth.se>
> Subject: Got it? (Was: genius babies)
>
> Regardless of what we may think of Rifkin he seems to be one of the
> people who Get It when it comes to upcoming changes in the human
> condition and our relationship to nature. That doesn't preclude him
> from making huge mistakes (like the fourth law of thermodynamics), but
> he seems to share an understanding with us what technology may be able
> to achieve. The same goes for Bill Joy.
>
> The big difference is basic values: we embrace change and
> possibilities and think that a dynamist process can solve problems,
> while Rifkin (and Joy to some extent) instead see these changes as bad
> and undesirable, and that they pose threats that can only be dealt
> with using technocratic or reactionary methods. The values are basic
> and not likely to go away just by some side having good arguments,
> what can be dealt with is how they are expressed and implemented.
>
> There are a lot of people out there who Don't Get It, of course. When
> they hear about nanotechnology they say 'Oh, a better way of making
> stuff. So what?' since they don't see the vast mesh of drastic changes
> such a technology would lead to. Maybe they are a bit imagination
> challenged :-) Also, we should remember that they are a necessary
> antidote to the 'foo-tech will change *everything*!' meme that easily
> enraptures us (and our opponents) - if we have to explain clearly and
> rationally just why a certain technology or trend will be likely and
> cause major changes, there is a higher chance that we will be believed
> and that our ideas subjected to the critical examination (by ourselves
> and others) they need.
>
> - --
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
> asa@nada.kth.se http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/
> GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of extropians-digest V5 #219
> ********************************
>
--- Edward Case
--- aces05@earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
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