From: QueeneMUSE@aol.com
Date: Sun May 28 2000 - 12:07:31 MDT
In a message dated 5/28/2000 10:21:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
zero_powers@hotmail.com writes:
> I suppose I can see how her ideas on "egoism" might lead an others-centered
> person (such as, apparently, yourself) to view her ideas this way.
I did not say I was others centered. That's preposterous. I said I was a
person who loved. I love myself. I love things passionately ... thing outside
myself: my lover, my family, my smallest closest circle of friends, new
people, things, animals, genres of art, music, TV, books, conversation, this
list...
> initially, her ideas struck me as narcissistic and selfish. But I've
> gradually come to believe that narcissism and, particularly, selfishness
> have traditionally gotten a bad rap.
Narcissism is a mental illness. I hope you understand that. It is a condition
that can be cripplingly debilitating and wreak havoc in many people's lives.
It is a delusional condition. I know people who suffer from it and it is not
pretty.
What you mean I assume is healthy self esteem and the ability to draw
boundaries -- letting religions and manipulative forces use the guilt factor
to cause you to do damaging thing to yourself in the name of altruism. If
you're a doormat, may I suggest a codependents anonymous meeting (or therapy)
instead of reading about selfish industrialists with gold mines who like to
sneer at the masses. It will hone your communication skills to boot.
IMO we are all born self centered. This is normal, but hopefully we learn to
curb that impulse when we learn the rest of the world is interactive. Being a
grabby child at 35 is OK BY ME ... but OFTEN it doesn't serve the situation,
or infringes on other's boundaries or causes pain to others.
I am sorry you were raised Christian, I was not. I am glad you turned away
from it's irrational grasp. Sorry to hear you fell for more dogma.
The character in the Fountainhead would NEVER have been a follower of dogma
that's the funny part. Howard Roarke at an objectivists gathering?? bahaha
gimme a break.
A healthy person does not need to be told to be more selfish, it comes
naturally to love one's self and to have integrity to one's own ego. A
healthy person also doesn't need THAT much control over others -- or need to
smugly put-down those who haven't learned to take care of themselves, and to
build themselves up with bogus pomposity and leering condescension for
everyone else.
We don't need to expound the virtue of selfishness any more than we need to
expound the virtue of breathing air.
Mostly a self absorbed person is truly a bore. They go from person to person
saying the same thing over and over. What ever it is about, it is about them
and theirs -- material stuff, ideas, stories, objectivists or political ideas
... whatever it is...
The same shtick goes for everyone. They don't have enough awareness of
"others" to curb their self talk and don't have the people skills/tools to
see how they are being perceived. They test the boundaries of patience in
polite conversation. Usually they take themselves waaaaay too seriously too
and get annoyed at anyone who tries to bringing in an outside viewpoint.
Actually I just read Natasha Vita More's well thought out post about Ayn
rand's tracts on art
In a message dated 5/27/2000 9:45:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
natasha@extropic-art.com writes:
> Her rigidity
> and lack of experience in Contemporary Art seems to be reflective of the
> rigidity in her psychology and her need for control. This behavior runs
> contrary to the open mindedness and curious attitude which can be aroused
> by fluidity and uncertainty.
TO ME it always boils down to the fact that selfish-self absorbed people are
often "rigid and lacking in experience".
How can you be UTTERLY focused on yourself 100% of the time and find the time
to
look openly at life outside your own sphere? To be open minded? Listen?
Especially since people are ALWAYS contradicting you, challenging your ideas,
disagreeing?
Her ideas to me, are not ideas at all. They are pathological quest to justify
a huge amount of psychological pain over indignities she endured in Communist
Russia and a total lack of empathy. She describes a feeling of "otherness" or
distance from humanity. A disdain for the masses. A destructive bitterness.
And a confusion as to how the 'rest' of us can be so stupid as to care about
other people. Again a total lack of empathy. Again, when i read he words, I
dont see an UPLIFTING of the PERFECT man, I see only bitterness, misery,
vilification, sneering, loathing and a general distaste for everyone who
doesn't see things her way. Her own tragic life is proof of how effective
this kind of pathology was at bringing happiness.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 15:28:52 MST