From: Zero Powers (zero_powers@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun May 07 2000 - 15:28:03 MDT
>From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <retroman@turbont.net>
>
>Zero Powers wrote:
> >
> > If I had said "hey, everybody on this list, I think we should all post
>our
> > names, addresses and phone numbers. You all go first, then I'll do so
> > also." And then if I refused to do so, *that* would be hypocritical.
>But
> > that is not even close to what I have said.
>
>A large number of use HAVE done so. There are several directories of
>transhumanists and extropians, Romana Machado's for example, where many
>list members are registered and give personal info and even pictures. I
>have done so. You have not. I wonder why that is.
There are a number of reasons for that: (1) until your post, I had never
heard of those directories; (2) I have no desire to contact anyone on that
directory, or to have them contact me (other than through this list),
therefore I have no reason to join any such directory; (3) I am unaware of
any requirement to join any such directory in order to participate on this
list. *That* is why that is.
> > What I *have* said is that I think a transparent society will eventually
> > become necessary, and moreover, I think it will be a good thing.
>
>yet you hypocritically don't feel that way when you talk to your kids
>disclosing personal information over the web.
There is nothing hypocritical about my expressed beliefs and my advice to my
kids. Perhaps you should try reading my previous post again.
> > My refusal
> > to give *you* my personal information does not contradict anything I
>have
> > said. You and I exchanging personal information over the internet does
> > *not* a transparent society make. It is simply a couple of idiots
>exposing
> > themselves in public. Your "walk the walk, talk the talk" nonsense is
> > clearly just a "dummy's dare" to expose myself as you have done, and I
> > simply decline that invitation. That does not make me a hypocrite, a
>coward
> > or a fascist.
>
>How is an open society acheived without voluntary action?
I don't know that it won't happen voluntarily. The obvious answer to your
question, for whatever its worth, is that if it doesn't happen voluntarily,
it will happen involuntarily. How does that have anything to do with my
refusal to give *you* my address and telephone number?
>What you are
>essentially saying is that you are calling for us, by your opinions, to
>all jump off a cliff, and you are promising that you are right behind
>us. Real leaders lead from the front. Only cowards lead from the rear.
That's not what I have said at all. I haven't said *anything* about what
*I'll* do. For your benefit, I'll repeat *again* my position: (1) I think a
transparent society will eventually become necessary, and (2) I think it
will be a good thing.
>SO:
>A) Orwell's idea of fascism matches with your opinions better than any
>other I've seen.
How so?
>B) You have proven your hypocirsy.
How so?
>C) You are unwilling to lead fromt he front.
I am unwilling to lead at all. This is the *only* true charge you have made
about me. I have never asserted myself as any leader of society. From the
front, the back or the side. I don't want the job.
>"Your honor, you cannot fail to return a guilty verdict on all charges."
If this is true, "your honor," thank God I still have a right to trial by
jury. I submit the record to the jury of this list and am happy to abide by
their verdict. As for Judge Lorrey, he can take a flying leap.
-Zero
"I like dreams of the future better than the history of the past"
--Thomas Jefferson
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