From: John Clark (jonkc@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Fri Feb 25 2000 - 22:16:24 MST
Brent Allsop <allsop@fc.hp.com> Wrote:
> This neural firing representation of this information is nothing like
> the original referents beyond our senses that initiated the perceptual
> process,
Not only is the neural firing very different from the external thing that initiated
it, the qualia the neurons produced is also very different.
>it simply abstractly "models" it.
There is nothing simple about it.
>Our brain takes this abstract model of the information and produces
>our conscious knowledge of the original referent.
Three problems:
1) I can't talk about "our brain" I'm the only one that's conscious for sure.
2) You have it backward, neural firing is concrete, consciousness is abstract.
3)I have no knowledge of the original referent except that it exists,
it's not neural firing but it's not qualia either.
> All that is required to sufficiently model color qualia is the
> amount of information traveling through or being modeled by the neural
> firing in the optic nerve,
Even if you used the correct model for qualia there is no way you could
know that it is correct.
Even if you knew it was correct there is no way to use it and know
what it's like to be me. Reading that my current mood was 19.6
on the satisfaction scale, 6.4 on the fear scale and 9.26 on the anger
scale would be interesting but you still wouldn't be me. If you really
knew what it's like to be me then you'd be me and "you" would still
be ignorant of my inner life.
> Instead of simply assuming that *redness* is simply the
> behavior of reflecting light,
Nobody is saying that for goodness sake, I can produce redness
in a completely dark room just by putting a little pressure on my eyeball.
> We've got to look for more than just abstract behavior.
Behavior is concrete, qualia is abstract.
>we've got to discover what and why it is like what it is like.
And what if qualia is not "like" anything at all except itself?
> Taking the abstract information being modeled in one person's
> optical nerve and feeding this into someone elses consciousness
I can see how you'd feed the information into a person's brain but how
do you feed it into a person's consciousness. and how do you know if
you've done it right?
>in such a way that it produces the same phenomenal "quale" is "effing"
But that's the problem. you will never know if it's the same phenomena.
John K Clark jonkc@att.net
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