From antoine.riard at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 03:30:51 2022 From: antoine.riard at gmail.com (Antoine Riard) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:30:51 -0500 Subject: [Lightning-dev] Jamming mitigation call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Clara, Thanks for rolling the ball forward. On the agenda, a few more thoughts. > 1. Which parameters should be considered in reputation-based solutions? I think before thinking about the parameters of reputation-based solutions, we should discuss the security goal we're aiming to achieve with any potential jamming solutions. Browsing the solution space some have aimed to increase the opportunity cost for the attacker (e.g liquidity slots), some to reduce the jamming intensity (e.g circuit breakers), some inflicting a on-chain fee damage cost back to the adversary (e.g stake certificates), some to achieve economic hedge of the routing hops (e.g unconditional fees, reputation credentials). As of today, I would say a security goal designed in the term of a monetary strategy could be more acceptable to the routing hops node operators. Beyond that, I believe there is capturing this design goal in a "measurable" notion, such as the unjamming lightning paper's breakeven point, and see how we can enrich this "measurable" notion. > 2. Circuitbreaker [1] While reviewing the circuitbreaker last week, I started to wonder if there wasn't another "hidden" issue while solving channel jamming, namely congestion control of the HTLC flows. A node operator is not only interested that any liquidity unit allocated for a HTLC forward is paid back with routing fees, but also in case of more forward demand than liquidity offer, ready to process it (potentially by deferring and sending backpressure messages to the HTLC sender). I don't know, though I think that can be an interesting point to discuss. > 3. Onion relay network [2] and its potential uses. Onion relay network rate-limits have been discussed earlier this year, with a probabilistic backpressure scheme proposed. If the onion relay traffic starts to have economically-weighable traffic (offers, credentials tokens, etc), there could be a risk of onion-jamming. For the bootstrap of the onion relay network, I believe this could be solved by leveraging more the channel-network topology for the design of a solution. We could re-use the evaluation framework from the unjamming lightning paper, I guess. In the meeting, I think it could be very valuable if we have reliable transcripts and if we start to maintain a community repository, where we can pin the issues, problems and ideas. On the frequency of the meeting, note some Lightning developers raised the concern that biweekly might be too much: https://gnusha.org/lightning-dev/2022-11-23.log (once a month could work well too, if we have a sound agenda). Best, Antoine Le jeu. 8 d?c. 2022 ? 11:08, Clara Shikhelman a ?crit : > Hi all, > > The agenda for next week's meeting (Monday the 12th, 7 pm UTC) is the > following: > > 1. Which parameters should be considered in reputation-based solutions? > 2. Circuitbreaker [1] > 3. Onion relay network [2] and its potential uses. > > The link to the call: https://meet.jit.si/UnjammingLN > > See you there, > Clara > > [1] > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-December/003781.html > [2] > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-December/003780.html > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 9:48 PM Clara Shikhelman < > clara.shikhelman at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> In light of recent conversations ([1],[2]), the agenda for the call >> tomorrow (Monday the 28th, 7 pm UTC) is roughly the following: >> >> 1. Overview of solutions under discussion >> 2. Reputation (local/tokens) >> 3. Fees >> >> This is the link to the call: https://meet.jit.si/UnjammingLN >> >> See you there, >> Clara >> >> [1] >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-November/003740.html >> [2] >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2022-November/003754.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Lightning-dev mailing list >> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > Lightning-dev mailing list > Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: