[p2p-research] [Commoning] Information sector: a qualitative different mode of production?

[Michel Bauwens]

yes, it is important to put property on the agenda! and may your thesis
contribute to that,

Michel


> so I'm not sure if I would read so many things into that tactical stance,

It has implications, philosophically and politically. It is misleading
and helps keep property thinking in the dark.


> but in any case, I don't think we are so far apart in our thinking of
> software as property ,..

I never did think we were, but I think we differ on the importance of
the philosophical and political implications of this tactical stance.




On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 1:53 AM, j.martin.pedersen <
m.pedersen at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

>
>
> On 03/01/11 15:02, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > ok, I understand a lot better where your claim comes from, and a lot of
> the
> > intricate argument gets lost in your summaries.
> >
> > here is how I understand it,
> >
> > the FSF reject property on intellectual 'goods' and frame this as an
> > opposition to property and an interpretation of copyright as policy
> >
> > for me this means they reject property as applied to information things
>
> Yes, that is why I call their position "information excpetionalism"
> (following Mossof, who calls them "internet exceptionalists", and who
> himself by the way is a property fundamentalists who thinks that all
> property relations should be modelled on the exclusive, private model).
>
>
> > and they do this because they are actually believe that property is a
> > natural right for objects , but not for information ..
> >
> > this may prove that they are inconsistent, since as you cite mossof, if
> it
> > is policy for the one, it must be for the other
> >
> > and it proves they are liberals
> >
> > thus, the FSF is actually in favour of property!!
>
> Yes, RMS makes this quite clear.
>
>
> > I stress this because in   your summaries when you say they are
> vehemently
> > rejecting property it is not necessarily clear that this means only for
> > informational goods
> >
> > all this being said, I have used the concept of peer property since 2005,
> > especially as concerns the GPL and free software .. ; I
> > have given many lectures with free software advocates in the audience,
> and I
> > have not once got an objection on it
>
> Perhaps not, but the motivation for my critique is that this view is
> shared by the leading commentators and they have set the agenda and
> shaped the philosophy that underpins a lot of Free Culture politics -
> including information exceptionalism - and many continue to follow their
> lead. I wanted to begin developing a different philosophical and
> political economy foundation that does not suffer from this
> contradiction and inconsistency and doesn't by implication serve the
> interest of capital and the owners of the tangible means of production.
>
> Also, even if you disregard Benkler, Lessig et al. they continue to be
> embraced by people who might think twice about doing so, if they were
> aware of their philosophy and its political implications. That's what I
> wanted to bring out.
>
>
> > so I'm not sure if I would read so many things into that tactical stance,
>
> It has implications, philosophically and politically. It is misleading
> and helps keep property thinking in the dark.
>
>
> > but in any case, I don't think we are so far apart in our thinking of
> > software as property ,..
>
> I never did think we were, but I think we differ on the importance of
> the philosophical and political implications of this tactical stance.
>
>
>
>


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