[p2p-research] feral trade outside commercial networks
Kevin Flanagan
kev.flanagan at gmail.com
Sun Sep 26 19:47:49 CEST 2010
Hey Ruth ,Michel, Kate, Sepp,
The conversation fired a few neurons so I'll add my 2 cents.
"to what degree is this 'only' an art project?"
Its a fair question Michel
What are the artists intentions? Where do they begin and or end?
Is what is presented in the gallery space solely a performance for
that space and its audience
or does the artist intend for their ideas to inspire action beyond the
gallery and if so at what point does ownership over that activity
cease to belong to the artist and does it then cease to be art? Why
does it need to be art at all?
Ruth I like your response
Its refreshing
Why cant it be both?
Is it more a question of what terms we choose to think about it in?
I think its fair to say we can take the Feral Trade project on face value.
It would be really interesting to hear Kate's thoughts on all this. I
have a feeling there are some interesting stories behind it.
I'm curious about this Banking idea ... has me thinking .. what on
earth people do with all the coins and currency they bring home from
holidays and cant exchange at the bank.... could it be traded too? Why
not? :)
On another tangent.....regarding conceptions of what art is...
Suspicions among the general public around art particularly the
mainstream commercial art world are well justified.
However art spaces and galleries are different things to different
people. There are many art worlds.
Before the internet before everyone got online, art spaces and
galleries were one of the few alternative public spaces to encounter
and discuss new and different ideas other than those handed down from
mainstream media outlets.
The flow of information and ideas in the pre-networked world was much
more controlled.
In this world spaces for free expression were like oasis in a desert
of mainstream media representations.
The privilege of access to such a space, the special autonomy granted
to artists by society was a big responsibility.
Now that you are free to express yourself what are you going to do
with that freedom? Not an easy question to answer.
(I don't want to over romanticize this notion of artists as guardians
of free expression or as avant garde. The art worlds inflated sense of
self importance can be a bit much so its important not to take these
things too seriously, all with a pinch of salt as they say.) At the
same time I think it is fair to say that this is part of the idea of
what an art space/gallery is about that we as artists inherit today..
Back to free expression. Today on the other hand we are spoiled for
choice. The internet has extended our ability to communicate and to
express ourselves so much, that its almost trivial, anyone can join
the discussion find a community of interest, start a blog, sign up to
a list, this throws my particular notion about the role of artist and
art space into question. No harm..
The colonization of public space in our cities by commercial interests
has intensified. Artists and artist led initiatives are often priced
out of city centre locations. But some survive and alternative art
spaces and galleries still hold physical spaces in our cities for
people to come together (often with the help of Arts Council funding)
but today the conversation is broader
this is what I find so interesting about the hackerspace and maker movements.
Ruth I really enjoyed the Furtherfield interview with James Wallbank
of Access Space a few months back.
I'm reminded of something he said like about what happens in the space ...
'sometimes people make stuff that is definitely art and sometimes its not'
I think this resonates a lot with the conception of art as a diversion
or as a hobby as opposed to art as a commodity. While such terms might
be problematic for some 'professional' artists it does have a more
modest bottom up feel.
Art spaces and hackerspaces have lots in common and can certainly
learn from one another.
Physical spaces where people come together to share, learn, be
creative together is what its all about, such spaces can produce many
different things, they can produce art too.
Physical spaces and face to face communities are still really important.
What if what appears as art is just one part of a larger creative
process and conversation.
Like a kind of overflow.
An art space as a place for things that do not quite fit or fully know
their place yet in the greater scheme of things..
Where rough cut notions can grow ripe like fruit..
Art like everything is an evolving idea
Oh the poetry
:-P
Regards
Kevin
PS (I get caught up for far to long writing..such that I would be
embarrassed to tell you how long I spent with this response ..I spend
a lot of time reading over and deleting things...nothing flows.... I
think I'm probably a bit dyslexic.. and its why I don't write more
often... anyway I hope this makes some sense.. I might as well post it
now :)
On 25 September 2010 14:40, Ruth Catlow <ruth.catlow at furtherfield.org> wrote:
> Hi Michel,
>
> RE:to what degree is Feral Trade 'only' an art project?
>
> Well that depends on how you view art.
>
> We don't accept the traditional marginalisation of art. The expanded,
> connected and networked artforms that we choose to work with cannot be
> separated from life so easily. They engage the people who encounter it
> with different kinds of aesthetic, ethical and philosophical
> experiences- often in places not easily recognisable as art-spaces.
>
> For all kinds of reasons (to do with our education and class
> structures), in the UK, the dominant view is that 'great' art is
> separate and distant from the rest of life and therefore of marginal
> relevance to society and most people. It is seen as: elite/intellectual,
> historical/heritage, commodity, the work of charlatans etc. Sometimes
> art is regarded perhaps more positively, as a diversion or a hobby. This
> is more positive from our point of view because people make art their
> own and incorporate it into their own lives on their own terms.
>
> The recurring question fired at contemporary art in the mainstream media
> is (the reverse of your question), "But is it Art?"
> This reveals a deep suspicion amongst many people- that they may be
> duped into valuing something that is worthless. This question is
> addressed most often and most urgently to work that extends beyond the
> object or the gallery - as with Kate's Feral Trade project.
>
> So to your question about whether Feral Trade is 'only' an art project.
> Well Kate may have a different view, but for me Feral Trade IS art AND a
> lived, alternative, co-created system for trading and serving food that
> refuses commercial exploitation.
> A way for people to be together, to socialise and savour the
> socio-political ingredients of every meal they eat. Finally it is a
> wonderful and humorous critique of the contemporary international art
> markets and infrastructures- I would like to see the it occupying
> different infrastructures too- perhaps the world of international
> banking; ) Kate?
>
> Is that helpful?
> It's difficult to explain briefly.
> Great question. Thanks Michel.
>
> best to all
> Ruth
>
> Co-Founder/ Co-Director
> Furtherfield - for Art, Technology and Social Change
> http://furtherfield.org
>
> Furtherfield.org believes that through creative and critical engagement
> with practices in art and technology people are inspired and enabled to
> become active co-creators of their cultures and societies.
> Furtherfield.org provides platforms for creating, viewing, discussing
> and learning about experimental practices at the intersections of art,
> technology and social change.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> To: ruth.catlow at furtherfield.org
> Cc: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2presearch at listcultures.org>,
> kate at feraltrade.org, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com>
> Subject: Re: feral trade outside commercial networks
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:49:45 +0700
>
> hi ruth, to what degree is this 'only' an art project?
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Ruth Catlow
> <ruth.catlow at furtherfield.org> wrote:
> Dear Sepp and Michel,
>
> We were honoured to host the first exhibition of Feral Trade as
> a
> working cafe, here at HTTP Gallery in North London in 2009.
>
> This page gives links to photos and a short video about the
> show.
> http://www.http.uk.net/exhibitions/FeralTradeCafe/index.shtml
> Watch out for the charismatic suppliers of locally made cake; )
>
> We especially like Kate's work because it works on the
> imagination of
> all who get involved while defying formulas and massification.
>
> If you are still hungry for more you can read about the
> exhibition here
> http://www.furtherfield.org/displayreview.php?review_id=346
>
> cheers
> Ruth
>
> ps. I recommend the Feral Trade drinking chocolate - yum!
>
> Co-Founder/ Co-Director
> Furtherfield - for Art, Technology and Social Change
> http://furtherfield.org
>
> Furtherfield.org believes that through creative and critical
> engagement
> with practices in art and technology people are inspired and
> enabled to
> become active co-creators of their cultures and societies.
> Furtherfield.org provides platforms for creating, viewing,
> discussing
> and learning about experimental practices at the intersections
> of art,
> technology and social change.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> To: Peer-To-Peer Research List <p2presearch at listcultures.org>
> Cc: kate at feraltrade.org, Sepp Hasslberger <sepp at lastrega.com>,
> ruth.catlow at furtherfield.org
> Subject: feral trade outside commercial networks
> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:04:49 +0700
>
> Dear Sepp, feral trade sounds like a fascinating concept and
> practice
> that we should support, and I'm hoping you can report on this
> for our
> p2p foundation blog ...
>
> Kate is the organizer, ruth has done it I believe .. (Kate: see
> below
> for links on our own work)
>
> http://www.feraltrade.org/cgi-bin/courier/courier.pl
>
> "
> The Feral Trade Courier is a live shipping database for a
> freight
> network running outside commercial systems. The database offers
> dedicated tracking of feral trade products in circulation,
> archives
> every shipment and generates freight documents on the fly.
>
> -- Michel
>
>
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>
> Think tank:
> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>
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>
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